Unstable build feedback thread

Started by Tynan, June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

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JavaWho

Torches and Passive Coolers:  They are currently constantly refueled without any materials on deconstruction, nor do passive coolers go away without a deconstruct request.  If we cannot get materials back upon deconstruction is it possible to add a bill when or when not to refuel them?  Often with passive coolers you only need them for a few days, they are in the way but the reward is worth it.  If you no longer need it and it has just been filled with a full supply of wood, currently you lose the resources.  In some biomes this may not be an issue but in others it truly is.  It seems passive coolers along with everything else upon deconstruction should continue to yield resources.

Thank you
Java

Mihsan

Quote from: JavaWho on June 21, 2018, 08:42:55 PM
Torches and Passive Coolers:  They are currently constantly refueled without any materials on deconstruction, nor do passive coolers go away without a deconstruct request.  If we cannot get materials back upon deconstruction is it possible to add a bill when or when not to refuel them?
Something like "turn off" function on them could help a lot.
Pain, agony and mechanoids.

RemingtonRyder

If you don't need them any more, marking them for decon will suppress refuelling, if I'm reading the most recent change log properly.

cactusmeat

#273
not sure if this is intended but i had captured 10 people from a hostile raid, releasing 6 of them raised their faction relation with me to neutral, but i kept 4 prisoners to recruit. later on when they were no longer considered guilty these prisoners left the prison when my pawns milked a muffalo in the doorway (those idiots) and i had my colonists arrest the escaping prisoners... they had never gained their freedom yet when i "captured" them i lost 20 faction rep per arrest.

I just want to know if this is intended/why it would be. especially since they were peaceful arrests

edit: did they leave the milk in the doorway because it was instantly set to prison food?

Also it has always bugged the hell out of me that night owls get -5 for being in darkness

I'd love a chop mature trees order, because i'm a min maxer and individually clicking on every tree every day isn't very fun

jamaicancastle

Quote from: Lanilor on June 21, 2018, 12:43:16 PM
- Why do smoothed stone walls give +2 beauty when even silver and gold walls give none? This is a way too big boost for mountain bases, also for no costs beside some work.
Because they have no "cost" (besides work), they also have no value. Smoothed floors have higher beauty than constructed floors for the same reason. Although they contribute more to the room's beauty, they don't contribute to wealth, so their effect on impressiveness is (approximately) equivalent.

At least, that's the theory.

Quote from: Mihsan on June 21, 2018, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: JavaWho on June 21, 2018, 08:42:55 PM
Torches and Passive Coolers:  They are currently constantly refueled without any materials on deconstruction, nor do passive coolers go away without a deconstruct request.  If we cannot get materials back upon deconstruction is it possible to add a bill when or when not to refuel them?
Something like "turn off" function on them could help a lot.
IIRC, buildings that are both refuelable and flickable (fueled generators being the main example) don't get refueled while flicked off, though I'd have to double-check that.

ashaffee

I can confirm there is no toggle on torches and passive coolers.

DariusWolfe

#276
Some comments based on other's comments, and my own play experience.

- I have literally zero interest in smoothed walls, and will absolutely be using RF's mod if/when it gets updated to 1.0. Why? Because I don't care about beautiful walls. I've lived my whole life without walls that were beautiful, merely functional. Vanilla smoothed walls are not functional in the way that RF's smoothed walls, and constructed walls are; i.e. they allow electrical lines to run under them. The fact that smoothed walls are beautiful and constructed walls are not is also completely nonsensical; Something like RF's mod that walls can be sculpted to add beauty if you want would be better, and having it applicable to both smoothed walls and constructed walls.

- Hostile escape pod pawns: is this a new feature, a bug, or maybe a mod conflict? None of my mods should be touching pawns, but it's possible it's the latter. Would be curious if others are seeing this, as I haven't seen mention of it yet.

- Flickable versions of campfires, torches and passive coolers would be a solid improvement. Sometimes you don't want to deconstruct, because you will want the resource later, in the same spot, with the same settings (in the case of campfires) but you don't want to spend the resources to keep the resource running while you're not using it.

- Opportunistic hauling definitely feels tuned low. As others have mentioned, you'll send a pawn, manually, across the map to harvest a resource, and they'll leave it there. Pawns released from combat will leave clothes, weapons, etc. on the ground even when they're not forbidden, even immediately following the order to strip an enemy pawn. Manual hunting also has this problem; In some cases, it's because a pawn across the map will reserve an item for hauling, but not always.

- Related to the former, the function added back in A17? where you could easily override another pawn on an object seems to be sporadically working at best. You'll sometimes get the "reserved by X" popup, but it'll be grayed out, so you can't override it, and you'll have to manually stop the pawn, then have the pawn you want do the task, then release the original pawn. Sometimes also with groups of items it simply will not allow you to click them, and it'll be because another pawn has reserved something in that group of items. The fix for this may be overly complicated, but I wanted to mention it.

- Doctors would still rather go to bed, eat, or goof off than take care of patients. Sometimes if there are multiple patients, they'll take care of one (generally if micro'd) then go goof off/sleep, leaving the others to wait in beds for care that's not coming.

- Related to the first, I wouldn't mind if there were some way to for patients to self-triage. I really don't want a pawn bed-ridden for literally a single bruise, which happens a lot.

That's all for now.

Tynan

Just FYI:

-Grenades being used in melee is a bug
-Smoothed walls not allowing wires is a bug

These are gonna get fixed, don't worry too much on them please.

Escape pod pawns can be factionless, but now there is a chance they'll have a faction. You can capture them, or send them home for a relations boost.

We're gonna review opportunistic hauling. We don't want them to do dumb and annoying things but we don't want them to miss too many opportunities either. Maybe we set it too safe.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

Ser Kitteh

So is animal tab bugging out for yall? I'd post a screenshot but my wifi is crapshoot and my mobile is running on low enough data already.

so heres a shot from my phone: https://imgur.com/a/0E446Dp

DariusWolfe

Quote from: Tynan on June 22, 2018, 01:05:02 AM
Just FYI:

-Grenades being used in melee is a bug
-Smoothed walls not allowing wires is a bug

These are gonna get fixed, don't worry too much on them please.

Escape pod pawns can be factionless, but now there is a chance they'll have a faction. You can capture them, or send them home for a relations boost.

We're gonna review opportunistic hauling. We don't want them to do dumb and annoying things but we don't want them to miss too many opportunities either. Maybe we set it too safe.

Sweet. I thought walls were working as intended. I'm back on board, then! Still think beauty should be balanced between constructed walls and smoothed, though; I'm still fine with no beauty, as the utility of not having to mine out the wall only to replace it with a constructed wall was the only reason I really liked RF's mod; The etching and carving parts were a 'nice to have' for later in the colony.

Thanks for clarification on the rest.

Madman666

Quote from: Tynan on June 22, 2018, 01:05:02 AM
-Grenades being used in melee is a bug

Well thats a relief. Though allowing shooting point blank is still a massive nerf to already useless melee in this game. Its only viable for the AI hordes now.

DariusWolfe

Another minor, but very annoying problem: Pawns armed with ranged weapons, sent into melee range and specifically told to melee attack, are still firing their weapons. As I often use all nearby colonists without melee weapons (and who are capable of violence) to beat a berserk pawn into submission, this is super, super annoying.

Tynan

Quote from: DariusWolfe on June 22, 2018, 01:48:23 AM
Another minor, but very annoying problem: Pawns armed with ranged weapons, sent into melee range and specifically told to melee attack, are still firing their weapons. As I often use all nearby colonists without melee weapons (and who are capable of violence) to beat a berserk pawn into submission, this is super, super annoying.

Yeah we're already planning to disable that.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

Teleblaster18

#283
Just wanted to relate a story regarding the new faction relations system which I encountered that I thought might be important:

Caveat: I'm not sure if this is my own ignorance of game mechanics, or if this is something to look into.

Early Game - Captured 3 Hostile Tribals during a raid.  Released one intentionally to bring my faction relations with the Hostile tribe up to "0", which was successful. 2 remaining Tribals are now in my prison.

I was forced to move the 2 remaining (and still incapacitated) Tribal prisoners from one prison cell to another.  In doing so, I deleted their sleeping spots (which of course de-zoned the room as a "Prison Barracks", and then created two new sleeping spots ones in the new prison cell.  I was forced to re-capture them both to move them (drafted a colonist, who moved them to the new cell), and in doing so, my faction relationships plummeted.  The faction system counted both as a re-capture of neutrals, causing that faction to become far more hostile than they were originally.  I do not recall seeing any options for "rescue", which always appeared for friendlies who were downed/incap'd, and a non-prison hospital bed was available.

Again - if this is my own ignorance of how to move prisoners, please disregard (and I'd love it if someone could tell me how to do it properly);  however, this might be of interest to the Devs if it is an unintended consequence with no work-around while 1.0 is still being examined closely.

Ardshael

OK, so I've played several hours now. Started with the initial build and updated as I went.

I like a lot of the changes. It's great to have quests and THANK YOU so much for revamping the caravan component. That was so incredibly frustrating before.

Here are some thoughts:

Food usage - Please add a section similar to drugs for food. If I can tell my colonists not to take specific drugs or when, it would be nice to do the same for food. I hate when my colonists eat the pemmican or survival meals that I'm saving for my caravans. If there was a setting to restrict all colonists from eating certain food types, that would be very helpful.

Transport Pods - These are annoying. It feels like how brutal it was to form caravans in the past. If you have colonists assigned to enter a pod, they will continue to load the pods until they are passed out exhausted. Even worse, if you have a group and a colonist enters the pod early while the other pod is being loaded then the loaded colonist will eventually starve. I almost had this happen where I was loading 60 tuques for a quest and a whole bunch of other items to trade. I ended up reloading.

The work around was to load one pod with all the items, then when it was ready, load 2 other pods with the essentials and the colonists. Launch the colonists first then then items. The problem with this is I can't drop onto another camp, I have to drop onto the tile beside it and walk in. I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say. Definitely needs a revamp.

It would be nice if more than one colonist could load a pod too. That would make it so much faster. However, I understand the ramifications from a coding perspective.

Mechanoids - I agree with others perspective that scythers (melee) are pretty easy to take down. And the big assed dudes are a little too difficult. I had 5 decent to good skilled shooters with excellent assault and sniper rifles barely denting the thing. (that was after the other 3 shotgun guys had to leave for medical reasons).

Allys - I would love to see quests sent by allies give more information than quests sent by neutrals. i.e. a neutral will just tell you there's an item stash. An ally might tell you if it's actually guarded. Also, it would be a nice addition that a caravan at an allied village would be given food so they don't need to consume their own rations.

Caravans - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE provide a proper letter notification for a caravan arriving at a location. I can't tell you how many times a caravan arrives and I didn't see the small notification because something else was happening. If you do nothing else, this addition would make me happy.