Unstable build feedback thread

Started by Tynan, June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

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TheMeInTeam

Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 09:54:47 AM
About sieges: only first one is tough. Then you steal some mortars and can fire back on next ones.

Also one time I fired 3 incendiary shells at siege before it could build it's mortars and hit only one guy. Still they all stoped building and decided to attack my base - this might be a bug (act like they lost all mortars if take damage and mortars not built yet? not sure). If they would keep that siege it would be much harder fight for me.

For tribal starts I consider a siege inside 1st game year to be the single most threatening raid type on extreme.  You're outnumbered, outgunned, and if raiders haven't turned up with a sniper yet, you have no realistic way to lift the siege without exposing multiple pawns to death on biomes that aren't animal-friendly.

Sappers certainly force altered base designs and are one of the hardest counters to dedicated kill areas.  I don't think their actions are a problem, though yes on high difficulties you're going to need a setup that lets you isolate some of them at a time for shooting if you don't have your own triple rockets or ally call-ins.

Mechanoids are awful.  Centipedes sponge for days.  In the game sense, literally.  Yes, I can kite them.  I was able to constantly hit one w/o taking damage yesterday...I had to send pawns back to back to eat and sleep because constant gunfire from a few of them couldn't kill it and I was in mental break risk.  It absorbed over half of the > 100 11 damage hits I put on it (not counting missed shots).  This is the only enemy type that I can't find a reliable way to kill quickly.  Maybe one exists but I haven't seen any evidence.  Once their numbers go up, you can't catch them all in EMP.  How is the new armor interacting with explosives?  Maybe that's a path worth attempting.

ashaffee

If it is a bug or intentional I also created the siege guys to raid before building their mortar by attacking them before hand. I think the fire destroyed the building mortar and caused it. Either way I predicted that corner would get drop ships/siegers so I already had a defense bunker set up there and they wouldn't of been firing at my base.

I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.

I haven't gotten sappers yet but I can't wait to see what that is like. My base is kinda built like attack on titan. Many layers and fall back spots and all in stone. I hold open doors between raids so pawns don't get slowed down. I'm up to 8 colonist now and my wealth should attract them very shortly I bet.

Mihsan

A trick question: if crossing river causes "wet" debuff - then why rain does not do the same?
Pain, agony and mechanoids.

Julia

#303
"A trick question: if crossing river causes "wet" debuff - then why rain does not do the same?"

Is it really needed to make it more unpleasant? Game should be fun, next thing you know we'll be crafting umbrellas and then toilet paper, more doesn't mean better ;o

Q: Did anyone have trouble with scrolling speed being too fast?

btw, old Silver graphic was more climatic and rimworldish, than the new one. Why work on something that was perfect?
New wind turbine looks worse. idk why work on graphics which where a great fit and perfect as they were.

Animals becoming wild? Why is there need for so much repetition.

Jibbles

#304
Quote from: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 10:24:59 AM

I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.


Calculate risk to cross the river for resources honestly sounds like a neat idea.  Just got to say that's not my experience. I don't have that decision.  A simple example is hunting animals. I don't want to keep track of animal's locations after ordering the job since the animals will cross rivers.  Not entirely sure if pawns just wander off in rivers without any reasons yet. When you do decide to unforbid resources those are several pawns going across the river from various locations on map.  Sounds silly but I also do have aesthetic reasons against the mood hit as well lol

ashaffee

Quote from: Jibbles on June 22, 2018, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 10:24:59 AM

I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.


Calculate risk to cross the river for resources honestly sounds like a neat idea.  Just got to say that's not my experience. I don't have that decision.  A simple example is hunting animals. I don't want to keep track of animal's locations after ordering the job since the animals will cross rivers.  Not entirely sure if pawns just wander off in rivers without any reasons yet. When you do decide to unforbid resources those are several pawns going across the river from various locations on map.  Sounds silly but I also do have aesthetic reasons against the mood hit as well lol

Well in my experience all creatures and humans tend to avoid rivers unless directed to do combat. Hunters will often place themselves on the river to hunt instead of equally good zones on a bridge for example. That to me is a little buggy but acceptable since it was only likely on my play through with a huge river. On a normal river you are looking at creatures kinda staying on one side or the other and some rng moments when they get chased over but not often.

The mood debuff is easily avoided on all characters besides your hunter. Fair enough though because hunting should lead to some possible uncomfortable situations.

Jibbles

Quote from: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 11:28:48 AM

Well in my experience all creatures and humans tend to avoid rivers unless directed to do combat. Hunters will often place themselves on the river to hunt instead of equally good zones on a bridge for example. That to me is a little buggy but acceptable since it was only likely on my play through with a huge river. On a normal river you are looking at creatures kinda staying on one side or the other and some rng moments when they get chased over but not often.

The mood debuff is easily avoided on all characters besides your hunter. Fair enough though because hunting should lead to some possible uncomfortable situations.

It's not easily avoided, and it's a strange debuff as is. That's my complaint.  Animals cross rivers more often than you think. Two hares crossed the river together right before I made that last post. They weren't fleeing or anything like that, they were middle of map open field.  Here's a snippet of a squirrel crossing at the bottom right after I read your post. Not sure why video came out that way but oh well. Hunters already deal with raiders entering edge of map, predators etc.

https://youtu.be/14CM-zOmGHU 

Julia

I always wonder why do ppl need to digitally suffer so much, instead of making it pleasantly fun. We could make a debuff about everything, just to make it more stupid.

Ambaire

Regarding the decision to make items decay when outside but still under a roof, I feel that this may have been implemented hastily. Please see this image for details. The survival meal on the right is fine, despite being in a 3x3 enclosure with doors held open, but the survival meal on the left is decaying, despite 9 tiles between it and the outside.



I would like to suggest that it be changed to if an item is within 2 tiles of the outside, decay is possible. Closed door? Fine. Held open door? Better have 2 tiles of roof extending or it will decay anyway. Single wall pillar with 5 tiles of roof on each side? Items within 2 tiles of the edge can decay.

ashaffee

Quote from: Julia on June 22, 2018, 11:57:39 AM
I always wonder why do ppl need to digitally suffer so much, instead of making it pleasantly fun. We could make a debuff about everything, just to make it more stupid.

I don't see it as digital suffer. I see it just like playing a game of chess. A fun series of calculated decisions that if I get wrong I can and will loose. But I find no joy in winning when I know I never had a chance for loss.

Wanderer_joins

QuoteI just got a sappers raid and it was... frustrating.

First of all direct power of that raid was much higher than my colony could beat in fair fight. I have 11 tribal fighters with rifles (3 more brawlers are off the map with caravan), 4 trained dogs and 3 stolen mortars; enemy have 26 people with doomsday and rocket launchers, power armors, shielded brawlers and better weapons in general.

That's weird. I'm playing Cass extreme, year 3, wealth ~150k, have 12 colonists, last raid was outlander sappers, they were 25 and at that point i'm starting to have clearly better gears and bionic parts than the raiders. What is harder in 1.0 is somtimes they fight to death instead of fleeing, it ended up as an epic battle over the bedroom. I kind of like these new strategies. Fleeing raiders are rather harmless, unless some mods like run and gun give them a minimal defense.

Mihsan

Quote from: Ambaire on June 22, 2018, 12:29:55 PMThe survival meal on the right is fine, despite being in a 3x3 enclosure with doors held open, but the survival meal on the left is decaying, despite 9 tiles between it and the outside.

It is exactly how it work for temperature calculation for inside/outside. Alternative would be to create complex system(s) which would calculate a lot of things all over the map and that is not a good option too.
Pain, agony and mechanoids.

PatrykSzczescie

#312
Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 09:03:59 AM

But what really bothers me is how fast those sappers can mine my walls and how many holes they are ready to make. On one side it was first time when I felt like there is something smart fighting against me in this game and I love that those unfair trap labyrinths will be nerfed (which I dont use anyway). On the other side it feels like sappers have too big of advantage because I wasted countless days to build that giant marble wall around my base and it took them literaly 2 seconds to make a hole in it. And wooden walls they pass almost without stoping. Maybe at least speed of wall mining should be tuned down?


What was the mining level of those sappers? If around 15, I think it's optimal that they break the wall fast.

Julia

Why not leave it simple - under roof = not decaying.

I don't like some of those changes, I feel they are overcomplicating on what rimworld is amazing. Simplicity wins and makes the game enjoyable.

Sure mods will come, but do you really need it in this game? Just like animals getting wild again, why do we need this constant repetition.

You could make walls crumble over time - so they need constant repairs, floors too, tables too. Plants would need to be watered and fertizilzed and ... too much =]

Madman666

I don't really mind decay happening when items are outside that much, but I ve got to admit - having it simple - if the roof exists over item - it doesn't decay, was much more convenient. It forces me to construct ugly initial sheds to store stuff and that fact irks me a bit.