Unstable build feedback thread

[Crow_T]

Some feedback:
As a player who usually uses mods playing vanilla feels pretty good, the only thing that doesn't seem to be working is the better hauling, I feel the mod in B18 was more effective.

I did my first caravan! It was 12 t-shirts for a legendary smg, silver table, and a decent bowler. Of course I got raided after I got back, the guy with the smg got downed, and I think the raiders stole it? That is just plain mean haha.

[wgiverrimworld]

First-time poster.  Funny glitch that is now more noticeable with deciduous trees changing color in the fall.  If you get a cold snap that drops temps sufficiently, all the foliage drops and you have barren trees.  But if the cold snap ends, and you're still in the fall, suddenly the trees regain all their yellow and orange colors.  Perhaps there's a way for the game to calculate how many days are left in the season during a cold snap so that once leaves drop past the start of fall, they don't re-emerge until the spring?

[Snafu_RW]

The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.

Thanks for replying and looking into it, it's appreciated. Sure, but it's also the ability to operate them and shut them down that's removed. Of course that can also be modded back. But like I said to Nightingale, reimplementing things that were already there made me wonder why they were removed in the first place, hence my feedback.

It was removed because it was just busywork to have to shut them down. Taking their guns was removed because it was a massive free money fountain at the exact time in the game (late game) when money was already overbalanced. Scyther blade was removed for related reasons to above and because it created a bug that was nearly unsolvable without serious changes to how our health system works: It reduced Manipulation ability, which also made the pawn bad at fighting in melee. The system doesn't suppose distinguishing manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-melee and manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-work, so the system was unable to express what scyther blades really meant. It was always bugged for this reason. I decided I'd rather cut it and add other stuff that fit in cleanly.

Apologies for the spam quotes; I'll figure out how to remove them sometime..
Anyway, my points are:
Centipede insta-death = good (shutdown was a PITA) unless deterioration (affecting mech corpses) remains a thing: pawns need those resources!
Scyther insta-seath/not dropping weps: OK, but (following on from your other posts) it may be an option to retreive & then /equip/ a scyther blade (rather than 'install' via surgury) as a clumsy (but high dmg) melee wep, or deconstruct it for adv components with a (v low) %age chance? Sale money could be reduced to 50% -> 25% of its B18 value (or somesuch), reducing that OP cash dispenser you mentioned
Likewise centipede deconstruction could have a (low, naturally) chance to drop adv components depending upon deterioration (reintroduce shutdown to reduce deterioration? That may make sense..)

[Lanilor]

I played a few starts with and without a river to compare how much the watermill helps and I think it still is really strong.
The main reason is the constant power output for no ongoing costs. Especially since batteries need to be researched now. It's a bit weird that the watermill can be built without research, but solar generators need one and need batteries to have constant power. It would feel better when solar and wind are available at the start (both not constant power supply for no ongoing cost) and the water needs research. (I know it's not really realistic that way, but balancing should be more important than realism.)

Also the watermill can be built on bridges, that means one can even build more. I don't know it this is intended, but maybe they should be heavy structures.

[TheMeInTeam]

Are you sure, I do pretty frequent uses of queued actions and haven't had any problems with them, might be just the rest thing. Besides, if you want pawns to prioritize resting, why don't just tick it in the work tab priority?

100% certain.  I have video footage of it.  Pathing is buggy too, sometimes pawns are allowed to pass beside/through pawns in only one direction, leading to unanticipated outcomes that make no sense.

[Snafu_RW]

- Still hope food poisoning stops knocking people out. They don't eat pesticides to get incapacitated, even if bad food gives you stomach pains, diarrhea, gut worms and some other nasty stuff, it doesn't make you KO, while raiders burn your house. You shit yourself, grit your teeth and fight. I liked it when it was frequent but less severe.
- Also I'll still be nagging about item quality - masterwork and legendary shouldn't be quests only. Sure it does add more incentive to go and try some quests. But if in earlier version you could incredibly slowly but reliably make masterwork or legendary beds for your guys for example. In this version max you can hope for is excellent even lategame with a god-like builder. And with quests you never really can get what you really want, only what random gives after you fight 10 people armed to the teeth with your 3 hobos.

Overall - great update. Centipede armor nerf and scyther buff was badly required good stuff. Melee-shot thingy was removed - another great decision, since it all but disabled any use melee in the game had. I really like how melee was a high risk, high reward thing, with you disabling and putting at a disadvantage otherwise technologically superior enemies.

Hmm..
WRT food poisoning, I've personally (unfortunately) experienced the extremes both ways IRL bar hospitalisation. Severe FP can make you unable to do anything except crawling to bed & then flopping there for a couple of days with frequent loo trips if you can make it that far (even 15 feet!): it's /extremely/ debilitating.. altho shouldn't happen in the middle of a battle IMO! Mild FP makes vomit & diahorrea likely but can be alleviated with plenty of hydration within a day or so & doesn't incapacitate (altho work rate will be slowed considerably). Extreme food poisoning may well kill due to related effects (usually dehydration, altho other effects also play a part). Meds will reduce duration but not stop the effect instantly

Food poisoning from berries makes a certain amount of sense: mild FP can be gained from eating unripe and/or uncooked veggies/fruit (or spoiled/raw meat ofc); extreme FP may be from gathering the wrong 'food' (the classic example is mistaking hemlock (deadly nightshade) berries for blackcurrants, along with mushroom misidentification) - incidentally why are briars/brambles/blackberries in-game description plant types but not listed as a (berry) food source? Rasberry canes grow naturally on the edge of woodlands (slightly shaded), while briars/brambles/blackberries grow almost anywhere..

WRT masterwork quality: I feel that this should be attainable by master crafters (L15+?) at a low %age; however, legendary quality shouldn't be attainable unless inspired. The RL parallel is that the apprentice/journeyman creates a 'master work' to prove to their master that they are capable of creating <things> independantly of their master, freeing them from implicit bondage & allowing them to become a free worker, to live on their own merits

WRT 'melee shoot', perhaps a limiter could be introduced? So pawns equipped with rifles won't opportunistically shoot 'enemies' if 'melee attack' button is explicitly activated? That would seem to be a reasonable compromise: a rifle-equipped pawn explicitly set to melee won't shoot the friendly they're trying to arrest, while still being able to shoot active hostiles within range..?

[Injured Muffalo]

- During combat, I really want to start using the stats where you highlight your shooter and then mouse over the enemy. However, it is not clear if I am looking at the chance of hitting him or me from him. Is that his cover stat or mine from his position? Confusing text for me.

It is. If your colonist is selected, the mouse shows his chance to hit a live target after deductions are made. If you select an enemy the mouse shows their chance to do the same.

[YoruOokami]

I haven't read the last 3 pages so I apologise if someone's mentioned this in detail before.
Predators seem a bit broken at the moment, the slightest injury leads to infection leads to death quickly. Predators always get injuries from their prey (Bites/scratches) and seem to always die, I'm barely 22 days into a colony and most of the predators on the map are dead to this already except the ones that steal from my food stock on occasion. I'd propose that predators that have the ability to get infections have them disabled, until(if) they are tamed by the colony or traders etc. Its not going to intrude on game-play, it would likely make predators an actual threat again which is a good thing.

Love all the new art by the way! finally getting a chance to see some of it, especially that chemfuel refinery is amazing looking.

[NiftyAxolotl]

I've started a new animal swarm run. Tribal, Boreal Forest (30/60 growing days) told by Cassandra Intense. This time there are no alpacas! I am devastated. How can I train an Alpaca Strike Force without Alpacas?!

I've just survived the first winter and my new rice crop is about to come in. I have 27 animals, even split of muffalos and boars+random. Since the muffalos can't be trained for release anymore, it's more of a... Mob... than a Strike Force. The best configuration I've found is to have the muffalos follow my melee colonists' charge, and then pull the colonists back from raiders with melee weapons. With this, combat is interesting again. I still win fights convincingly, but my colonists take some real injuries. There were two threatening sieges. I had to charge one across an open field, and that was bloody (one downed colonist, 3-4 dead animals). For the other I hid behind a wall while they built two mortars, then charged with most of the distance already closed. That was an easier fight.

Food was a little touch-and-go by the end of winter. I had stockpiled several thousand pemmican/kibble/hay/etcetera, but muffalos eat sooo much. Luckily, I could let the boars munch on raider corpses, and there were plenty of herding animals. I had to feed some packaged survival meals to starving muffalos, but I have not had to slaughter any animals. I did get some event notifications of lapsed training. One per animal every 7.5 -10 days means a non-trivial chunk of a trainer's time must be maintenance. But that seems fine. Once I have food again, I'll still be able to expand the Mob. I'll just have to grow a much bigger plot of haygrass this year.

(Side note: I've produced two masterwork items from random constructing - a pigskin chair and a wooden bed. The constructor was level 10ish, I think. No inspiration involved.)

[ashaffee]

I also agree that watermills are a bit too overpowered. I really haven't built any batteries, solar panels, or wind turbines since their release. I think a good balance would create a force distance between each one. As it stands now I can just build like 10 of these across the river and on top of the river with bridges and never have power problems.

Later on when I am using more turrets maybe I'll throw in a couple wind turbines that flick a switch into a few batteries then disconnect the batteries from the grid so I never get zztt incidencies.  But I could probably just expand my base over the river more and build more watermills instead.

If they gave a power output of 1450 but had a forced min distance of 5-10 tiles that would mean you could power a sun lamp with two of them and use third for normal stuff and fitting 30 tiles of river in your base isnt un reasonable.

[Serina]

I've started a new animal swarm run. Tribal, Boreal Forest (30/60 growing days) told by Cassandra Intense. This time there are no alpacas! I am devastated. How can I train an Alpaca Strike Force without Alpacas?!

Alpaca Strike Force sounds more cute than threatening. Muffalo mob on the other hand... I love the idea of animal strike forces but unfortunately I could never grow one as large as the ones you raise. My favorite biome happens to be tundra and the most animals I was able to keep fed on that biome was around 10. A couple of muffalos, alpacas (mainly for caravan) and 6 polar bears. You should post a screenshot of your Muffalo mob when you have time, I'd like to see it. 

I was curious about the new "Wild Man" event when I read about it in the notes.

Finally got my first encounter 68 days into this new save!
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198059850157/screenshots/
Although the message said "Wild man wanders in", she's a little lady just 15 years old. Said she has a 10% chance to attack upon failed attempts but since she's incapable of violence, why not? Plus, she's butt naked with just her fists. I think Kent should be okay. I could really use a researcher since none of my other colonists have passion for it.

Edit: Failed to "tame" her for several days. Decided to arrest her instead since she was hurting herself by hunting rabbits for food.

[MikeLemmer]

Recreation tolerance seems broken. Before I built a Horseshoes Pin, Social tolerance reached 99% and colonists would just eternally socialize. Now that I've built the Horseshoes, both tolerances are hovering at 80%. I think I'll have to build a Chess Table just to make recreation effective again.

[Tynan]

New build is going up! Various further rebalancings and changes. Your existing watermills will be repositioned and stop working - sorry.

Raw change log:
----
Watermill generator requires a 5-wide line of moving water instead of 3-wide.
Fix: Def direction of watermill generator is reversed.
Corrected nutrient paste dispenser def direction and cleaned up some of the art.
Watermill size (4,5) -> (5,6). Including art upscale.
Reordered skills and defined the order in defs so mods can insert skills anywhere.
Fix: Packaged survival meal now has no research prerequisite.
Rename skill: "growing" -> "plants".
Reduced soaking wet thought impact 10 -> 6. Adjusted text to hint about bridges.
Minor trait commonality adjustments.
Add hediff debug command now shows all HediffDefs on the first page.
Reduced food poisoning impact to no longer down the pawn, but rather slow him and put him in pain.
Fix 3458: Damaged graphic for side-rotated 1x2 table is offset from the table graphic
Humans can now drop their terrain-source filth several times.
Added trash as a variant of human filth.
Change difficulty labels to the traditional ones.
Rearranged construction work priorities. Repair is below construct, and other changes.
Crashlanded scenario now starts with 10 wake-up.
Adjust GiveUpExit mental break text.
Gift silver for one goodwill 20 -> 25.
Nutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research.
Adjusted multi-analyzer art match other table types in style (i.e. tabletop fills cells).
Mining against constructed structures is now much slower than mining against natural walls. This will slow down sappers and insects when they're digging through your defenses.
Remove construction skill requirement for passive cooler.
Allow opportunistic haul for pawns with hauling work disabled. Loosed up distance limits on opportunistic hauling. Refactor opportunistic haul tunings into new AITuning class.
Rename some classes Tunings -> Tuning
Reduce max world feature text size. When there are giant oceans it was making insanely huge text that Z-fights. Slightly reduced mid-tier feature size as well.
Minor rebalances to trade requests.
Fix: Unnecessary decimals on money amounts in trade request letter.
Debuff trade quest rewards 200%~300% -> 180%~260%.
Buff sandbags 60%->65% coverage.
Clarify skill descriptions.
Marble now has +1 beauty offset. So marble walls have 1 beauty. It's still the weakest stone type.
Increase theshold for bionic uneasiness from 2 parts to 3 parts.

[TheMeInTeam]

A lot of this looks fantastic...I'll do my best to keep up mid week but time is of course more constrained! 

I have to say, the raider AI puts up a bit more of a fight.  I've adjusted accordingly, but error margin is a bit less.

[Revshawn]

Great changes! Especially the change with the passive cooler. No more dying to random heat waves because your solo colonist doesn't have high construction!