Unstable build feedback thread

[fritzgryphon]

Hmm second day, one of my colonist got a mental break and got addicted to wake-up; i mean why giving wake-up on crash landed start ? has no sence to me (not blaming about the mental break, i just find it useless at start) maybe some opinions about it guys ?

You could make your colonists take all the wake-up in the first couple days, and really get a head start on your first structures/mining.

[rdshen]

Hey I've been playing with 1.0 and I've noticed a couple things. 2 I would call a bug and 1 is a frustration.

1. Doctors rarely doctor without my prioritizing. Doctors should still doctor even if they're assigned to 'sleep' or 'joy' and even if their needs are below 1/3. As it is right now I have a doctor who watches TV to full recreation and goes to sleep while someone is bleeding out in 6 hours.
2. Patients should also prioritize resting faster. I run into the same issues of someone bleeding out in 10 hours playing with the horseshoe pin for 2 hours.

3. Pawns are often not great about efficiently working on bills. Let me explain.
In a later game colony I've got two primary smiths, two secondary smiths (work after growing/construction are done), two fabrication benches and a machining bench.
Both of the fabrication benches have bills assigned to primary smiths only, and maintenance bills assigned to everyone. (components up to x)
The machining table has maintenance bills only (flak pants, vest, smokepop, shield belts all to 1)

The expected behavior is that the primary smiths work on their assigned bills until those bills are done, and then they move on to the lower priority bills or to the machining bench. The secondary smiths are expected to work on the machining table when possible, and make components when the primary smiths' bills are done or when they're asleep.

The observed behavior contains the two following issues:
1. Primary smiths will choose to work on the machining bench or the wrong fabrication table, despite having half completed bills on the correct bench, or specifically assigned bills on that table.
2. Secondary smiths will choose to work on the fabrication table when the machining table is open, and they will 'reserve' the fabrication table for most of the day. Often times they'll jump in while the primary smiths are eating.

The effect is my important bills don't get done, and without the labor from those bills my primary smiths run out of things to do. Despite having 3-6 unfinished bills on the fabrication benches, the secondary smiths will reserve the entire bench for a low priority bill for days if I don't micromanage. This is very annoying when I'm aiming for 20 smithing. The current solution is to remove 'making components' from the fabrication benches and build a new fabrication bench to handle those. Then assign on a per colonist bases the machining benches' maintenance bills, which is not a good solution because it's not consistent which secondary smith can work when, and because the primary smiths might not have big bills to work on at times, and I want them doing maintenance bills at those times.

Suggested Changes
-Pawns should prioritize bills that they have already started, provided a higher priority bill that they can satisfy does not exist on the same bench.
-Pawns should prioritize bills that have their name attached, provided a higher priority bill that they can satisfy does not exist on the same bench.
-Pawns should be able to preempt other pawns, and boot the other off of a workbench if they can satisfy a bill higher in priority than the bill the other is working on, and that the other is unable to satisfy.

[Ser Kitteh]

+1 for the crafting. My best crafter at level 15 I want to focus on crafting stuff with qualities (armor, clothes, weapons) but she runs to and fro the tailoring and the machining bench and the component assembly  despite the fact I assigned her to the machining but seeing as she's only one who can makr advanced components, she goes back and forth on the matter.

"Locking" them to one job even if they can do others would help ensure that other crafters can level up their crafting on non-quality stuff (components, grenades, prosthesis, etc)

[NagashUD]

Hmm second day, one of my colonist got a mental break and got addicted to wake-up; i mean why giving wake-up on crash landed start ? has no sence to me (not blaming about the mental break, i just find it useless at start) maybe some opinions about it guys ?

You could make your colonists take all the wake-up in the first couple days, and really get a head start on your first structures/mining.

Getting addicted to wake-up the first few days make me think twice if it's a good start

[ashaffee]

There are so many ways to make sure your colonist don't take the wake up drug. Easiest is just to forbid the item. Second if you can't be bothered to destroy the drugs just never un forbid it in the first place and let it rot outside.

Third is setting up no drugs on everyone. But my preferred method is scheduled drugs on everyone for mood drugs and turning off social drugs on anything that is extremely combat/situation specific like wakeup and go go juice.

Drugs are extremely useful in this game if used correctly lead to so many advantages. If used poorly they have the harshest set backs.

You've never been in a raid before that caused you to be low on food needing you to have your cook stay up the entire night. Or a sapper group hits right when everyone is a sleep. Same situations for carvans. Maybe addiction  UI should give a warning so you learn to control its use a little more, but I can use every drug in the game besides luci without any addictions besides on the chemical interest guys.

If I have a chemical interest guy ( I usually don't accept them) I just forbid all my drugs and manually turn them on when I see they are needed.

I do think it is extremely stupid pets can eat your forbidded drugs. Tbh I haven't seen it happen in 1.0 yet so I pray it was just a beta 18 thing.


To also speak on job priority. I'm kinda just biting my tongue on it because I know fluffy's work tab will fix all these issues. To me this game is extremely frustrating to play without every single aspect of fluffy's work tab. I need at the minimum 1-7 job #s instead of 1-4. I need the ability to tell one crafter to do medicine crafting before growing but not make stone blocks until after that. Or simpler things like train a chief by lowering butchering on one of them and making the trainee chief butcher before they do anything.

[TheMeInTeam]

In B18 pets would leave their allowed areas to take drugs, very obnoxious.

Haven't had many pets in 1.0 yet, mostly self-tame fodder.  NB type starts don't give you much time for animals initially.

[CrowSR]

Anyone noticed the bug where when you try to make a pawn destroy a smoothed natural stone wall, he mines it until it almost breaks and then repairs it to full?

[PatrykSzczescie]

Anyone noticed the bug where when you try to make a pawn destroy a smoothed natural stone wall, he mines it until it almost breaks and then repairs it to full?

It has been mentioned a lot of times. Devs are most likely trying to fix it.

[Gfurst]

Your existing watermills will be repositioned and stop working - sorry.

Oh no! Goddamn Tynan, I foresee problems, I had my watermill carefully placed in a river cave, tight between cave walls and a narrow path...
Anyway its interesting to see that they require a free river path, I had no clue about that, maybe make it more obvious? But I really think the way to balance them is making a variable output, since they're essentially the same technology as windmills, that is, converting natural kinetic power into electricity. The only reason they were more reliable, is because they could funnel it, since water had no where else to go, where as wind has the whole atmosphere to escape to, so having variable output seems like ideal, something more steady than wind, and that has higher average during rainy seasons than drier seasons.

Also here is another list of pointers, again from the previous build.

• It would be a nice to have more details on pets in the caravan screen, like which pawn its assigned to, age and/or condition.
• Likewise, more details on the animals tab list, like age but anything else that may be relevant, something to make it easier for example on choosing which animal gets butchered.
• Or perhaps, the ability to reorder animals, which I don't know if there is, so we can kinda keep and internal track of.
• Some animals seems like prime candidates for pack caravan, off the top of my head cows/bulls seems an obvious one, but maybe dogs and pigs too (even if low capacity)? Right now there seems to be only a handful of pack animals.
• Again, begging for a trade caravan parking spot, had a situation where they stopped by my base's entrance, letting the cold winter air go all in.
• At that same time had one of their rival faction stop by for a quick visit, which were soon downed, needlessly to say got a hefty penalty hit, because I had to capture them and if I just rescued them they would soon get up and get killed again.
• About Penoxycycline (or whatever the name is), they seem cool to use, we never know what would be the most appropriate time for that. What would really make them more useful, is if they could prevent wound infections and food poisoning, so they could for colonist on caravan or about to get into dangerous battles.
• I really like the "pause" bill feature, however for bills like that, I feel there should be a "pause" button, just where the "unpause" button is. Just so if you feel the need, you can pause an task and then have it automatically resume later.
• We sometimes see a different cloth type in traders, some have another color, whats the deal there?
• Still have trouble with massive drug puppies, they go down on beer and other drugs like there is no tomorrow. Forbidding the stacks work, but that's less than ideal, they also also don't seem to consume stuff that is in wardrobes.
• Aldo had a weird issue with dogs eating on raw hunt while already having full stomachs
• I like some balances with clothing, feels like now Jackets do serve well as middle ground wear

On another note, let em share a story, regarding difficulty, on Phoebe Rough (began Randy but changed midway).
Difficulty seems to be much finely tuned now, even if on this mode, there seems problems with actual threats and more difficulty on the survival aspect instead. For example, I'm now at the end of the third year, and every winter is a struggle, barely scrapping by, this third year is the hardest with a toxic hitting it midwinter. So there is no more hunt left on the map, and since most wild animals insta rot there was little use there, I cannot let my (now big in number) herding animals graze outside, so they're on the verge of toxic build-up and starvation, my colonist barely scrapping by with whatever simple meals we have left, if it were not for a stock up stash of pemmican and a indoor growbed. I'm literally counting the hours for toxic fallout to end, hoping that a orbital trader comes by before I need to start butchering my herd.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[Jibbles]

Gotta say it. I expected improvements when it comes to controlling pawns. 
Hopefully there are plans for adding stuff like this at some point.

There's hardly any option to scatter/move colonists efficiently in a game that punishes you for clustering colonists or poor positioning.  It's why I've never blamed other players for relying on killboxes or cluster their pawns.

No hotkey to assign group positions, can't route pawns to take a specific path without using area restriction, etc. Most of the stuff achtung mod did was neat and ideal.

Ordering groups of pawns to perform a single task such as taking drugs, eat a meal etc all has to be ordered individually instead of simply selecting them and click on the job. This alone. Why not add this by now?

I believe A17 is when I started to lose controls on "right click to prioritize" a job as well.  Those are things I thought would be solid in this update, but they're worse than ever in my experience.

Soaking wet debuff is just.... For that to be an ongoing encounter on maps with rivers, it's expected of me to control that situation. I've previously listed in this thread reasons why I don't have control. The mood hit is manageable, it could be reduced to -1 for all I care... The fact it's there with no elegant solution to avoid that debuff makes me question why such things get added to the game as it's tedious to micro and track. (placing bridges in random/unnecessary locations or bridging up most of the river is not ideal, nor setting area restrictions). There are small annoyances like that throughout the game, and it's why I'm complaining about a minuscule problem.

Since I'm on subject of controlling pawns: This bug is infuriating!
[Colonists blocking paths]
Video of bug: https://youtu.be/q097gSySnhk
Post with attachments: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41984.0
Some feedback on that bug if it's even being looked into would be appreciated.

Messages:
Awesome it's added! Personally think it deserves one click access.  The notification mod let me archived ALL my notifications, also had search filter. 
Hope that bit gets added some point since that's how I would track things like specific events. Don't wanna pin everything to keep them there.

Deterioration:
Understandable you can't roof trees, but kind of annoying.  Can't simply put a roof over items to prevent deterioration.. Doesn't add a challenge to me or affect me much with resources. 
I like not having to put items in rooms sometimes for aesthetic reasons and convenience.  In previous versions, the option to not store items inside punished me if raiders decided to steal, thought that was fair. 

Zooming:
If I'm remembering correctly feels like we can zoom in closer.  Sweet! Wished I didn't have to zoom in all the way to see progress bar on pawns tho.
Also noticed that it doesn't always display warmup-cooldown time when firing a weapon even if I zoomed all the way. You can see that in the video posted above.

There are definitely improvements/additions to appreciate in this update. I'm not digging the overall experience tho. I keep hoping it will grow on me but.. I want to spend a lot more time with it before commenting on the changes made.

[fritzgryphon]

Noticed a bug; tamed dromedary did not become listed in animals tab.

Tamed one dromedary successfully.  Tamed two more, and those ones did not appear in the animals list.

I rebooted the game and reloaded the save, and the animals tab would no longer open.   Pressing it would make the view freeze, until I clicked on another menu tab.  The final exception in the log would keep occurring so long as the animals tab was trying to open.

Started with rat pet, then huskies join, then I trained the dromedaries.




e.  I tamed another one, and the exception that occurs on the tame success is the 'Root Level Exception In OnGUI()' one, with these notes:

Root level exception in OnGUI(): System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at RimWorld.PawnTable_Animals.<LabelSortFunction>m__0 (Verse.Pawn p) [0x00006] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable_Animals.cs:15
  at System.Linq.SortSequenceContext`2[Verse.Pawn,System.Boolean].Initialize (Verse.Pawn[] elements) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at System.Linq.QuickSort`1[Verse.Pawn].PerformSort () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at System.Linq.QuickSort`1+<Sort>c__Iterator21[Verse.Pawn].MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Verse.Pawn].AddEnumerable (IEnumerable`1 enumerable) [0x0001a] in /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Collections.Generic/List.cs:128
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Verse.Pawn]..ctor (IEnumerable`1 collection) [0x00025] in /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Collections.Generic/List.cs:65
  at System.Linq.Enumerable.ToList[Pawn] (IEnumerable`1 source) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at RimWorld.PawnTable.RecachePawns () [0x0002a] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable.cs:243
  at RimWorld.PawnTable.RecacheIfDirty () [0x00019] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable.cs:229
  at RimWorld.PawnTable.get_Size () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable.cs:50
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_PawnTable.get_RequestedTabSize () [0x0001d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_PawnTable.cs:29
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow.get_InitialSize () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainTabWindow.cs:18
  at Verse.Window.SetInitialSizeAndPosition () [0x00009] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\UI\Windows\Window.cs:261
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow.SetInitialSizeAndPosition () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainTabWindow.cs:48
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_PawnTable.SetDirty () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_PawnTable.cs:79
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_PawnTable.PostOpen () [0x00018] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_PawnTable.cs:45
  at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_Animals.PostOpen () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_Animals.cs:27
  at Verse.WindowStack.Add (Verse.Window window) [0x0003c] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\UI\Windows\WindowStack.cs:348
  at RimWorld.MainTabsRoot.ToggleTab (RimWorld.MainButtonDef newTab, Boolean playSound) [0x00086] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabsRoot.cs:94
  at RimWorld.MainButtonWorker_ToggleTab.Activate () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainButtonWorkers\MainButtonWorker_ToggleTab.cs:12
  at RimWorld.MainButtonWorker.InterfaceTryActivate () [0x00060] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainButtonWorker.cs:33
  at RimWorld.MainButtonWorker.DoButton (Rect rect) [0x0011e] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainButtonWorker.cs:69
  at RimWorld.MainButtonsRoot.DoButtons () [0x000ab] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainButtonsRoot.cs:101
  at RimWorld.MainButtonsRoot.MainButtonsOnGUI () [0x00017] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainButtonsRoot.cs:49
  at RimWorld.UIRoot_Play.UIRootOnGUI () [0x000a6] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\UIRoot_Play.cs:59
  at Verse.Root.OnGUI () [0x0004f] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:164
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.Root:OnGUI() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:169)

[TheBill]

So, you can build watermill generators on bridges... Please nerf
I found out about that when i accidentally hovered a wall blueprint over a bridge and was like "whaaaat you can build on tho- wait...". I tried putting a watermill generator on a bridge and it worked. This allowed me to pretty much fill a river up with watermill generators to get a ridiculous, non-stop power supply.

I think this needs to get nerfed, it's way too cheap (since wood is renewable) for what you get when you fill a river up with them

[TheMeInTeam]

I still haven't 100% worked it out...when is it possible for pawns to traverse between squares diagonally, and when is this restricted?  I sometimes see pawns dart between each other in checkerboard setups, but in others the game insists on pathing them through something that slows them instead or blocking them entirely. 

Even after reloading/replaying some encounters I've not pinned down a consistent model that allows me to anticipate what happens each time I right click a drafted pawn.  Sometimes, they move right past diagonally and sometimes they don't.

Same deal for pawns moving through each other.  As of 1.0 this is much more restricted...but sometimes they still move through each other while usually they can't.  Absent consistency, it would be nice to know what the rules allow in terms of movement since this stuff has a huge impact on raid micromanagement.

[Tass237]

Several points and thoughts. For reference, I played on Cassandra Rough Crashlanding

-I concur that Glitterworld is a better term than Ultratech.
-I had a colonist get the "Witnessed Ally's Death" mood debuff despite having a mountain between them and the fight. They were both outside though.
-The animal taming/training maintenance is not too bad, and I think it is a good addition.
-I think that the current NOT being able to automatically mine an entire Node is good.
-With 4 sources of Recreation (Takign a walk, chattign at table, chess, horseshoes) the recreation tolerances are sitting around 45-65% for each type. Not a complaint, just providing data.
-There is a B18 mod for Pathing that lets you specify certain areas you want pawns to avoid if possible. I would love to see that or something like it make it into the game. It made the pathing algorithm treat that tile as if it took longer to cross. I would paint the Heavy Avoid zone in the doorway to bedrooms and all doorways to the Freezer, so people wouldn't go through there unless their objective was in the bedroom/Freezer.

[Gfurst]

Oh and I think I've found an oddity, others please confirm on this, it seems like plate armor has actually worse protection overall than a flak vest+pants combo, all of that while overriding clothing as well, even though they cover more body parts. Though I haven't built them yet so I don't know regarding materials costs, but got and excellent plate armor from quest reward. From stats alone I can't see the reason why they would be usable instead. They also don't seem to cause any clunkness/heavy, which is what we would expect.
As a side note, begging reminder to add armor to their own category, and make it smelt-able.