Unstable build feedback thread

Started by Tynan, June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

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East

#675
When a centipede equipped with an inferono cannon drops, you will see hell. It does not die horribly. Even if the colonist has enough firepower with the EMP, it is strong enough to make it into the fire.
I had a brick wall and a fire extinguisher, but all the warehouses burned.

Those at 1.0 against b18 were more than twice as strong.

I hate them.


Kuranu

I went through the effort of researching the entire path towards autocannons and then building one and was terribly disappointed. I was fighting a 6 man raid, 4 of them were with guns and so didn't ever go past the minimum range, meaning that the autocannon could shoot them at all times. During the fight it shot 45 shots and hit 1 shot which didn't have any impact on the battle. Afterwards it needed 200+ steel to reload despite not being useful at all. I am just absolutely done with autocannons forever unless something is changed.

Greep

#677
Still trucking on armored warrior fort:

One thing that definitely needs to change is the effort needed to research plate mail.  Going head on to fight the enemy and take hits without cheesing is already reckless, so if someone wants to go that route it should be accessible. 

Right now, with a 9 researcher with industrious trait going full time in a clean lab, I was not able to get plate researched until day 10.  This also delaying general research because I'm needing to skip microelectronics to get there.  And I still need machining to research helmets xD  So as it stands, the second raid, the first real one, you may not even have been able to build any armor!

The actual material cost to build, 210 metal + 600 work, feels fine, though.  Being able to have more than one heavy by the first real fight might be too good.

Will update as I go to battle :D
1.0 Mods: Raid size limiter:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42721.0

MineTortoise:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42792.0
HELLO!

(WIPish)Strategy Mode: The experienced player's "vanilla"
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43044.0

Yoshida Keiji

Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 11:55:57 AM
Overall, the balance has shifted far too much towards pure theorycrafting in this thread. So I'm instituting a temporary moratorium on theorycrafting here. Any posts not related to some specific and up-to-date play experience will be removed.

We'll see how this plays out, and we can let the theorizing back in slowly later. But at the moment it's simply not useful since it's almost always based on very false assumptions.

Thank you in advance to anyone who posts a play story or specific experience-based feedback.


Countering against theocrafting, it is untrue that in less than a year's time Sieges will be bringing Snipers.








People here like TheMeinTeam can come and make false statements and then "edit" them out when they realized they had no real back up in their comments before Ramsis see them.

But based on authentic experience, I tell you again, Sieges are not hard even in Extreme difficulty, and also notice, I had zero pets in combat as opposed to the other's response saying so.

Any tribal colony CAN beat a Siege with Great bows, the largest range the enemy had was "1" single Bold action rifle.

Mihsan

#679
My impression about new armor system:

- It is not intuitive and I wasted more time on understanding it than I am ready to admit. Even "three-way roll armor system" forum post did not helped much at first and I had to return to it couple of times. The system itself seems very simple, so I blame it on explanation that could be made much better, especially in the game itself (ingame info made me more confused really).

- In general I liked it and how it affected my gameplay. It allowed some more brave moves w/o fear of losing my soldiers to extreme bleedings and blown out brains/hearts/livers.

- I liked how some weapons changed damage to more reasonable (IRL-comparable) values. I did not liked how assault rifles now shot slow two bullet bursts (it should be 1 shot or 3 shot burst - just pick one and stick with it).

- What is the design idea behind 50% blunt damage? Why not 33%, 25% or some variable? After some tests I feel like 50% is too much damage left.

And unrelated note - what's up with switching graphics on machine pistol and heavy SMG? I dont like it. Before I could imagine that "heavy SMG" is just some weird upscaled TEC-9'ish SMG with big bullets... now I straight know that they both fire 9mm pistol ammo and there is no explanation to why they deal 2x different damage. Current stats of heavy SMG is definitely not Uzi - it heavily damages my suspension of disbelief inside of this game. Those stats are for FN P90... can we has it? Please?

[attachment deleted due to age]
Pain, agony and mechanoids.

Dargaron

Question: Is there a way to remove/mitigate Soft Sand at the moment so that you can build on it? Or am I stuck with that space being unusable?

XeoNovaDan

Quote from: Dargaron on June 26, 2018, 12:34:02 PM
Question: Is there a way to remove/mitigate Soft Sand at the moment so that you can build on it? Or am I stuck with that space being unusable?

Moisture pumps.

Nightinggale

Quote from: Roolo on June 24, 2018, 03:42:28 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 23, 2018, 11:19:59 AM
Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.

Wherever [DebuggerHidden] is coming from, it's not defined in our source code. Kind of a mystery... and thoughts from anyone appreciated.

This happens for any iterator method (methods returning IEnumerable). I'm not sure why, but I can imagine the annotation is there to make clear that the method displayed has a hidden object inside it.

@Nightinggale The problem of not being able to patch the method is ...
Oops. Seems like it was an issue with my Harmony skills rather than RimWorld. Sorry about sending you searching your code for a problem, which isn't there  :-[

I have to say I'm fairly impressed with your new patching code. I tried reimplementing B18 patching and it turns out that applying an empty sequence takes 5 times as long as a 1.0 patch, which changes construction cost of a building. I assume this has to do with the loop overhead (it can't really be anything else) and I have to admit that I did not predict that to be slower than xpath searching since xpath searching is the performance killer in B18. You truly came up with the right design for patching. Good job.

I have to admit I had a moment of feeling obsolete, though that's not really the case. I can still mod to patch faster than vanilla as well as all the other features, like patching profiling. It's just not as much of a notable performance boost as it was in B18.


And I will like to repeat that it's annoying having to pick 64 bit each time the game starts from steam. It would be nice to have it pick for you without the window. Factorio managed to pick 32/64 automatically without asking, meaning it should be possible to do so. Admittedly Factorio dropped 32 bit support due to technical (memory?) issues, but it was picking automatically at some point.
ModCheck - boost your patch loading times and include patchmods in your main mod.

bbqftw

#683
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 12:18:40 PM
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 11:55:57 AM
Overall, the balance has shifted far too much towards pure theorycrafting in this thread. So I'm instituting a temporary moratorium on theorycrafting here. Any posts not related to some specific and up-to-date play experience will be removed.

We'll see how this plays out, and we can let the theorizing back in slowly later. But at the moment it's simply not useful since it's almost always based on very false assumptions.

Thank you in advance to anyone who posts a play story or specific experience-based feedback.


Countering against theocrafting, it is untrue that in less than a year's time Sieges will be bringing Snipers.








People here like TheMeinTeam can come and make false statements and then "edit" them out when they realized they had no real back up in their comments before Ramsis see them.

But based on authentic experience, I tell you again, Sieges are not hard even in Extreme difficulty, and also notice, I had zero pets in combat as opposed to the other's response saying so.

Any tribal colony CAN beat a Siege with Great bows, the largest range the enemy had was "1" single Bold action rifle.

in b18 month 3-4 siege would typically bring snipers/multiple BAR. Do you realize that sample size = 1 means very little?

Its possible that 1.0 changed raid point generation and scaling so it is less likely to happen. But you can make the point in much less hostile terms, and your single sample doesn't mean everyone else is a liar.

It is funny, you post with assumption that you are the best player around. And yet you have much to learn (as do must of us).

(Incidentally, I started playing extreme/tribal 3 weeks into playing this game, with some games taking zero sharp hits for several years, and I am awful player, don't bring it up as an end all be all argument. It certainly doesn't connote full game mastery and the right to bypass making actually good arguments.)

PS you take a siege that literally sets up at top 1% RNG position in range of your high cover and you claim all sieges are easy? Surely you have to be trolling right? Instead of bragging I would analyze whether I made any mistakes in taking a hit.

Lanilor

Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 08:24:39 AM
Regarding "legendary", I think when there's an issue it's because people import assumptions from other games. In every RPG you always end up decked out in all "epic", "legendary" loot etc. This isn't RimWorld. I'm going with the actual meaning of the words "masterwork" and "legendary". Specifically, if something is going to be legendary it has to be so exceptional that people tell stories about it for years and years. Most of us never experience such a thing; in a RimWorld game it's entirely reasonable to never encounter a legendary. But if you do...

The same goes for skill levels. Player complain about how it's impractical to "max out" skills on their characters. I'm just like, dude, have you ever even met a single person who you could say was "maxed out" on any skill at all? Probably not, and most of us never will. When the description says something like "system-class master" it's describing something most people will never encounter, by design.

I can fully support this. Please keep it this way!

I'm playing only naked survivor for testing. I really like the start with an absolute minimum.
My last playthrough went pretty far (extreme, permadeath) until I got massacred by 4 scythers. It all started with 1 or 2 weak raids early, then I got a second colonist and the next raid was 4 pirates with knifes and pistols. Afterwards the raid sizes really went up, but I wouldn't say it is too difficult as it was manageable without a killbox or any gun research. Only the scyther raid was really strong and killed everyone. But I think I could have prepared better with a few traps so nothing that would really need more heavy adjustments.

Besides that the 4 scythers killed 6 colonists (greatbow, revolver, chain shotgun, maces) easily (despite door cheese), I can't give much feedback to the new armor system. I will do so later when I have some experience with it.

Watermills now are more fair. I started around 10 river maps and checked building spots and played two short games with them. Most of the time there are still enough building spots to get really good power and to even rely only on them. This limits the fun for me a bit, since it should be more like recreation where a good mix of sources is what to aim for, but I can live with the current way. It just takes the reason to research batteries and removes the threat of the battery shortcircuit event.

It does only make limited sense that the soaking wet mood is applied to naked colonists. Even more when it is 30°C and irl they would be more happy for the refreshment. It doesn't really affect gameplay anymore since it is only -3 mood for a few hours, but it feels weird, so I thought this is worth mentioning.

Anyway, great work so far! Also a lot of the code changes make modding life easier. Updating all the smaller changes in old mods is a necessary pain and it's fine for me. I heard complaints about it but as a programmer I understand the reasons behind it.

wad67

#685
I recently had a drop pod raid, right in the middle of my underground base, Cassandra rough.
Was this prevalent in previous releases? I found it peculiar that the drop pods were able to penetrate through overhead mountains on some tiles.
Granted, there was a few rock roofs(thin) and maybe a couple of constructed roofs.

Not sure if this was intentional or already present in previous versions.

EDIT:

Apologies, I had already asked this question a few years ago.

Tass237

(played in the last few hours, Cassandra, Rough, Crashland)

Regarding Autocannon turrets, it seems to me they are more effective than two miniturrets, both in range and stopping power. 
I tested in both open fields and in a "killbox".
I haven't had that many tests yet, and mostly against few targets, so it may go the other way with massed opponents, but autocannon > 2 miniturrets. This makes sense with the cost ratio. I think I would use them in a more normal play-through, though I may have to figure out the best arrangement.

I like that the rain causing a debuff makes roofing exterior walkways and bunkers useful again, as I haven't bothered since darkness stopped being a defense buff.

I also quite like the reordering of the skills. It makes it easier to figure out how useful a pawn is.

Unlike animals, there is no stat on a "wild man" (or woman) that tells you how likely they are to become hostile on a failed taming attempt (Unless I missed it). It only tells you in the alert when you first mark them to tame.

Greep

#687
First battle with plate result (vs 6 tribals):

On the one hand, my guy in plate mail, advanced helmet, and plasteel gladius got downed (not killed).  On the other hand, he repelled the raid mostly by himself as I did not have the time to properly gear everyone else.  It feels like it's working well.

The bruising mechanic feels like it needs some tuning.  Even though he ended up with only 3 cuts, he ended up with 8 bruises, which is why he got downed fairly quickly.  I think successful deflections should have a chance of no bruise, like maybe 50/50, possibly even as high as 2/3.
1.0 Mods: Raid size limiter:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42721.0

MineTortoise:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42792.0
HELLO!

(WIPish)Strategy Mode: The experienced player's "vanilla"
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43044.0

fritzgryphon

#688
My theory is that the new armor hit graphics and sounds are sweet, especially on mechanoids.  It's really clear when shots don't penetrate.  The stagger on hit is a nice touch, too. 

Was avoiding autocannons because of the min. range.  Built one outside, with some sandbags around it for troops, and it got directly attacked by a small group of tribals.  It fired 8 shots before the tribals could get in range.  A total of 14 shots, of which 2 hit.  One hit destroyed torso/heart and the other blew off a foot (probably overkill for shooting at humans).  When the tribals took cover to use bows, they conveniently stayed outside of the autocannon's minimum range.  Would be great on Scythers and snipers since the range is roughly the same.

First impression is that the range and the fire rate is pretty strong, and finally gives some reason to make outdoor combined arms strongpoints as opposed to killboxes.  The steel cost is heavy, and autocannon turrets cannot be relocated, so I wouldn't consider building these until all my pawns are fully equipped.  Maybe as a late-game way to reduce mechanoids at a distance, before you have to engage with pawns and start risking injuries.  Definitely want to make combined autocannon/mini-turret/soldier fort later on.  It would be nice if the min. range would be shown when going to build it.

e.  Just noticed that mortar and mini turret have their own storage tab now :D

Zajedac

Hello friends!

I've been playing RimWorld for a while now, but only now did I get around to making a forum account.

I like how you simplified the leather system, but I think I would actually preffer having just 4 types - light, medium, hard and humanoid. The leathers are still too many (for my taste) and clutter the stockpile unnecesarily.

I also dont see why we shouldnt have just three types of meat - animal meat, human meat and insectoid meat. It would again reduce the amount of clutter in stockpiles and simplify our lives on the Rim. If you want to have more types of meat for feeding the animals, you could make a bill in the butchering table that would make meat just for animal consumption.

I would also like to see map overlay which would show ground fertility, as distinguishing between fifty shades of brown is sometimes quite hard and difference between stony soil and soil (and the border between rich soil and soil) isn't always obvious.

Thank you for reading this and sorry if my english is bad, it is not my first language.