Unstable build feedback thread

[Greep]

I honestly don't see why the flak jacket needs to exist. With the current state of textiles and considering the point at which I'd personally usually consider mass-producing armour, chances are that one'd already have access to overall better options such as heavy fur, bearskin or better textile dusters. Granted, there's a bit of playstyle variation involved here, but I personally feel that flak jackets don't really fill any niches other than possibly cheap-ish apparel that can protect the neck.

Flak pants are somewhat exempt since the gap between pants and flak pants is larger than the gap between dusters and flak jacket.

Also, purely flavour-based feedback here but it seems strange that upon inspecting textiles post-textile buff, heavy fur is as strong as plasteel in some aspects in terms of stuff power. Couldn't apparel items have just had their stuff power factors increased instead?

Actually plate armor even covers the neck, so it's really useless xD  Perhaps it could be balanced with making heavy armor cost more mats, since 210 is cheap enough to have your whole colony wearing it soon after research.

They sure can be useful, especially if you are starved for workforce. But their trait effects are so atrocious, i'd rather avoid having anything to do with them unless absolutely neccessary. Its not worth the pain in the ass.

They do have organs though, their skin makes for good chairs and of course dogs appreciate the kibble. So yeah, i can't really say they're useless..

Tynan's moving a bit too fast for you guys, pyro and gourmand are already lessened xD  I guess druggies are still bad though.

[Madman666]

Hm, i didn't see much deacrease in their deviancy though :/ Either way even with pyros breaking less, they ll still find a way to break exactly when you don't want them to. I like them in their true form - chair form.

Just imagine your researcher working in a legendary human leather chair, called "Fire's Embrace". Marvelous!

[rdshen]

Seeing a lot of comments on the Centipedes and I just want to throw in my 2c.
I like the change. I like that they're harder to take down and are basically armored behemoths. Please don't make that easier. Those of you having issues with them, I've found great success with EMP grenades allowing melee pawns to get in and do crazy damage.

As for the new Wimp modifier, yea it's too much. Having someone permanently bedridden because they have a relatively small scar is a little off.

[TheMeInTeam]

Seeing a lot of comments on the Centipedes and I just want to throw in my 2c.
I like the change. I like that they're harder to take down and are basically armored behemoths. Please don't make that easier. Those of you having issues with them, I've found great success with EMP grenades allowing melee pawns to get in and do crazy damage.

As for the new Wimp modifier, yea it's too much. Having someone permanently bedridden because they have a relatively small scar is a little off.

If you show me a video where you or someone else is killing 12 centipedes + other mechs in < 10 minutes IRL by just throwing EMP grenades and going ham I'll concede the point, learn this approach, and integrate it into my game.

Otherwise the tedium is a real issue.  Most raids put time pressure on you in that you have to deal with them one way or another before something horrible happens.  Centipedes take nearly that long just to move somewhere.

They are in a bad place due to the following combination:

- There are multiple ways to reliably hit them without taking return fire
- They sponge shots for an eternity, creating constant attention to what rapidly becomes a mundane task given how their AI works.

"Slow, but not that threatening" isn't ideal.  If we're willing to accept the idea that deep drills feel like a grind, how are these things *not* a grind?  Right now fighting mechanoids is STILL about trivially separating centipedes from the rest, killing the rest with easily favorable trades, and then either peek-shotting or kiting centipedes for free.  Maybe if you have even more you might start firing mortars at centipedes.  They're slow enough that you'll get plenty of chances.

[rdshen]

If you show me a video where you or someone else is killing 12 centipedes + other mechs in < 10 minutes IRL by just throwing EMP grenades and going ham I'll concede the point, learn this approach, and integrate it into my game.

Otherwise the tedium is a real issue.  Most raids put time pressure on you in that you have to deal with them one way or another before something horrible happens.  Centipedes take nearly that long just to move somewhere.

They are in a bad place due to the following combination:

- There are multiple ways to reliably hit them without taking return fire
- They sponge shots for an eternity, creating constant attention to what rapidly becomes a mundane task given how their AI works.

I'm not going to take a video, but my latest late game colony was dealing with literally constant mechanoid raids (that's another thing, why are 10/12 raids mechanoids late game?) and over a dozen centipedes was not a new thing. Two entrances lead to the same open courtyard with two autocannons and a few regular turrets, and a third leads to a killbox w/ 1 autocannon and 4 turrets. The killbox downs a centipede within 1 emp grenade while also hitting all the centipedes around it with stray shots. The courtyard requires I micro my grenadier behind some cover so I can get past 'adapted' and get the second stun, and the pedes are able to get a few shots off then. Even still I'm usually able to take one down within the first stun. They don't take over 10 minutes to take down, not even close. Maybe melee does make the difference, and I'm sure frag grenades would help a ton too. If you're kiting them around with 3 pawns with assault rifles in an open field maybe it'd take 10 minutes, but that's a cheezy way to play and you shouldn't be upset that a cheesy way to play doesn't make the most sense.

Edit:
I'd also like to add I have 1 block chokepoints in all of the entrances, which makes it substantially easier to hit 3 or 4 centipedes at once with an EMP grenade.

[TheMeInTeam]

Can't use assault rifles to avoid shots, you need something at bolt action range or better (charge lance/snipers work too).  AR is fast enough to shoot them and shut a door before they blast you though.

Per the above measured time at 3 20 skill (!) shooters immune to damage take 50 seconds to kill a centipede with continuous fire.  Even with 2-3x the number of pawns, using realistic shooting skill values makes this a bad way to challenge them. 

Maybe the boosted turrets are what's carrying you along with the EMP stun.  I've played in 1.0 a ton now, but haven't used the super turrets yet because I'm tribal (that will be very late game for me, other research priorities first).

BTW: mechanoids display a temperature tolerance ranging from very cold to 250C.  Does this mean they actually take damage above 250C now?  Has anybody tested that out?  I was under the impression they were immune to heat damage, but I don't recall B18 or before displaying that comfortable temp range.  Given how fast-moving centipedes AREN'T, if it's possible to cook them it's a setup I'll certainly consider designing.

[Snafu_RW]

WRT animals, would it be unreasonable for bonded animals to require 0 training skill from their bondmate? This may help offset some problems..

WRT LR/deep mineral scanning, would it be unfeasible to make the ship sensor cluster act as a deep mineral scanner if connected (via structureal beams or directly) to a ship reactor? This would add some reason & reward for researching/building those ship parts rather than ignoring them (if not playing to escape) or putting them off until last (if escaping). The sensor cluster would act as a LR scanner if the ship was off the ground, but that's obviously only relevant for backstory

WRT armour, I've always been puzzled why the advanced helmet offers no eye protection.. RL riot (& lots of other) helmets have face shields after all..
WRT burst shots 3->2 adjustment I personally think that 3 rounds per burst 'feels right', esp with high-cycliic single-barreled weps such as SMG/MP, even AR
One day soon I'll be able to start a reasonable playthru, but ATM with daily or more frequent updates that ain't gonna happen

[klun]

Seeing a lot of comments on the Centipedes and I just want to throw in my 2c.
I like the change. I like that they're harder to take down and are basically armored behemoths. Please don't make that easier. Those of you having issues with them, I've found great success with EMP grenades allowing melee pawns to get in and do crazy damage.

As for the new Wimp modifier, yea it's too much. Having someone permanently bedridden because they have a relatively small scar is a little off.

+1

Game in extreme need to be hard thats the whole point even to an unfair point - that difficulty should force players to think outside the box , plus most mods add op stuff (weapon /magic/factions) so  the vanilla game should add something more  since centipedes is probably the only vanilla enemie that achieve that

I still would like to see quest offering a harder take on that point specially raiding bases - monsters and  so on after all its the "rimworld" landed in probably the worst most hostiles planets...

[PurpleTonberry]

Just wanted to make a quick post for the beta with a couple quirks I have noticed so far.

Was in the process of recruiting a prisoner yesterday in the early game. She was a 95% difficulty recruitment and my two pawns had social skills of 2-3. It went as expected, recruit chances starting at 1% then going up to 2% and 3% as she warmed up to my pawns, when I noticed the chance had suddenly dropped to 0.5% and wouldn't rise. The prisoner's mood was fine; good even, I was keeping an eye on that. I restarted the game and the recruit chance bounced back up to ~1%, and rose with each attempt, as if she was warming up to my pawns all over again, even though they were both at 100 opinion with her.

Great job revamping caravaning, Tynan! It actually has me going out and traveling for a change. The only oddity I've noticed with caravaning is that pawns lose their assigned beds and don't have them reassigned automatically upon return. A tad annoying for couples, they don't go back to sleeping together until I notice and assign it, as well as our greedy or jealous pawns.

One last thing, would it be possible to make the wildlife tab show if an animal is manhunter or not? Perhaps a unique icon in the predator column. This would make the mass animal insanity event quite a bit more manageable in the early game, being able to tell easily if you've gotten them all.

Thanks again for all your hard work Tynan, and everyone else at Ludeon <3

P.S. Would it also be possible to add in a passive "Wind Turbine blocked by object" message? That would be wonderful!

[TheMeInTeam]

Game in extreme need to be hard thats the whole point

Saying that in response to the arguments presented is, however, disingenuous and ignores the reality of what was said.

Sieges, sappers, drops right into base are all more challenging to win without taking damage than centipedes, and it isn't close.

Yet the argument is still about centipedes.  It's useful to consider why that is, before repeating "hard is supposed to be hard".

[einie]

Descriptions of artwork are not available when the item is in storage.  You have to reinstall it before you can see what it is. 

[dnmr]

something funny going on with hunting it seems, just had a character on the bring of breaking down, so i set him on 24/7 recreation, dude decided to go hunting turtle instead of meditating... Thanks NRA

That works as intended. If you set a pawn to sleep or recreation, they will sleep or recreate until their bar is full, then go work. They wont stay in bed or recreate indefinitely. If you want them to not do any job just take the jobs out in the work tab.

they weren't full on anything

[zizard]

I like that rot time is now given with 1 decimal point. But once it gets to less than a day, it only says 'less than a day', instead of 0.X days.

[Greep]

Having been forced to play around with miniturrets due to the autocannons requiring plasteel, I've noticed the ability to reposition them is an absolute game changer:  Notably, playing flat maps with a turret strategy is no longer complete suicide:  you can simply keep them all stored before battle, and because they take no time to plop down, you can move them wherever required.  I'm playing a small hills (for increased metals) and this is working just great.  I have built one autocannon on each side of the base for tanking, though.

[jerronnimo]

Just a quick note about the new smooth rock walls.


When trying to remove them by mining, my pawns will hit them a few times with a pickax, and then stop mining and repair them.

I have to manually right click on the block and tell them to mine it, and then keep doing that until they finish