Unstable build feedback thread

[Greep]

Sorry if this is kinda irrelevant to the 1.0 stuff, but it really irks me that "nightowl" is just a fancy phrase for "permanent mood debuff". If you keep them awake during their day rest period, they get a -10 (reasonable). But if you flipflop their rest schedule and have them work at night, they get a "darkness" debuff which is -5. What gives? Aren't they nightowls for crying out loud? Shouldn't the darkness debuff just not apply to them? If you want someone to have a trait that says "this person is permanently unhappy and always gets -5", that's fine (and it's actually a thing), but disguising the same trait with "nightowl" text as if you can do something about it is just very unsatisfying.

The darkness refers to being in an unlit room, which is cured via lamps.  Someone working the night shift could enjoy it, but not working in complete darkness

So, I haven't managed to put together another report on the status of Darg's Dregs, but I notice that Plate Armor doesn't seem to have an unfinished state: my crafter just takes 210 steel to the Smithy and starts crafting, but the steel never turns into Unfinished Plate Armor. This means that if she stops work on the armor, I lose all progress.

I ran into this as well in current build and reported the bug

[Boboid]

I don't see it quite as efficient a way to turn one material into other as you do.

The reason I see it as an efficient way to turn one material into another is because.. the math works out that way and I've used exactly what I'm describing to you myself with no issues. Here's an example.
---
LRMS yield: 420 gold (A 3x4 lump of gold at 35 gold per square) which is lowballing the average gold number considerably but some deposits will be jade which is worth considerably less so lets go with this for now.

Raw value: $4200
Value when sold on Extreme with 8 social skill: 1882 (base value: 10, x0.50 selling modifier, x0.80 difficulty modifier, negotiator bonus 12%, adjusted value 4.48)

Value of steel: 1.9, adjusted for purchasing with 8 skill 3.01.
Cost of 300 steel at 3.01: 903.
So you're up 979 value right there.
All figures double checked in-game.
---
I'd say the average steel per bulk goods caravan is ~350 but I'm happy to lowball to 300.

The point is that you don't even need to turn the raw materials into art for it to be efficient and profitable.
You're only paying 15 reputation with a faction per trade caravan.
Depending on the volume of trade per transaction you can get ~5 reputation back just from the trade itself. You can pay/gift ~380 silver for +15 reputation, which means you're still up ~600 silver and ~300 steel from the entire process.
And that's all with just 8 social skill and lowballing the numbers. And ignoring the additional benefits of the trade caravans themselves.

Overall trading like this is pretty much 100% reliable as you have control over every aspect of the process except for the possible threat's at LRMS locations. Which could be seen as potentially increasing profits - especially when the threat is a small group of sleeping mechs.

1.0 really is the best time to be trading. The system is in a better shape than it's ever been.
---
@Ser Kitteh
I've just sent you you a message.  We'll figure out something that works

[Greep]

Stuffs on steel trade from LRS

This is more of an issue on extreme which is probably why you're feeling this way.  On extreme,

A) turrets are burning through metal like crazy due to increased threats
B) You're getting more trade goods from mechanoid plasteel and such

So you're more likely able to able to afford to buyout steel all the steel you can trade for (so no need for gold), and you need more than you can buy.

Mostly I'm concerned with how this is going to affect "permaforts" (stay on map, no ship): everyone else can just deep drill enough on the map for the ship.  Sounds like you're just going to run out eventually.

One other thing: you still have to walk to and escort your miners for the LRS.  This ends up being far worse than deep drilling, even without escort.  I guess this is less of an issue of steel vs gold, and more of a just "LRS sucks" point, though.

[Dargaron]

So, built my first Autocannon...I'm not impressed. I built it on the side of my base towards an Ancient Danger, and figured that opening the Danger would be a good trial run. Inside were three Lancers and one Minigun-toting Centipede.

The Autocannon averaged a 19% chance to hit Lancers in the open at medium range. Against the Centipede, it was closer to 32%. It did take out two of the Lancers with lucky shots to the Torso while my colonists focused on the Centipede, but at the cost of nearly 200 steel in maintenance.

EDIT: Hmm, new datapoint. Got an Outlander raid immediately after, and the Autocannon was able to hit roughly one shot per volley, and did severe damage each time. It's still bloody expensive to maintain, but it's at least effective.

[Lech]

Out of curiosity, why tribals get both ur-board and chess table?

[klun]

Yet the argument is still about centipedes.  It's useful to consider why that is, before repeating "hard is supposed to be hard

The argument was that its manageable even with those numbers for some people and in my opinion should remains as it is or even harder - so im against a nerfing on centipedes in that difficulty.

So its useful to consider that I couldnt care less about your argument because I wasnt even talking to you to begin with

[Tynan]

So its useful to consider that I couldnt care less about your argument because I wasnt even talking to you to begin with

This is statement carried no information, is unkind and unnecessary and not useful; it's a rule violation. Let's not do this please.

[East]

I wanted to create a campaign through the scenario editor.However, the current editor is only able to manipulate the initial situation. Do not you want to dramatically improve the scenario editor?

[Ardshael]

I'm getting a note that I need more recreation variety. Apparently I need 6 types of recreation. However, I've built all the items available to build for recreation (except the new flat screen TV). Am I missing something or does this need to be fixed? Do I really need drugs and/or chocolate to fill that need? I REALLY don't want to have drug use as part of my game play.

[Kalre]

My feedback is: Cassandra is way too hard now l0l QQ

[PurpleTonberry]

I'm getting a note that I need more recreation variety. Apparently I need 6 types of recreation. However, I've built all the items available to build for recreation (except the new flat screen TV). Am I missing something or does this need to be fixed? Do I really need drugs and/or chocolate to fill that need? I REALLY don't want to have drug use as part of my game play.

I currently have 6 types of recreation without the use of drugs or chocolate: Solitary relaxation, social interaction, dexterity play, cerebral play, telescope study, and television watching.

[Madman666]

I kind of hate the new wet moodlets in the rain. They always stack with something else and seem to be last straw to something awful, like damn catatonic state. It just doesn't add anything to the game, that you can influence at all. At least you can just avoid river maps (just like i do), so that dumb pathfinding doesn't force them to always hunt in the river. But rain? All you can do is either roof your whole base (and get darkness moodlets instead, unless you light your whole base like a christmas tree) or force all your pawns to stay indoors until it ends. This is really unneeded and annoying. They already whine and complain over each and every small thing they can, sometimes even about what they shouldn't (like "oh so innocent prisoner died, that tried to burn us all alive" moodlet). Please remove this nuisance if possible.

They have their magical multitool that lets them chop n pick n dig, so let it also have a compact umbrella inside.

[cactusmeat]

here's a long story:

Build 1.1948
custom tribal - no starting weapons or pets
phoebe medium
     river centered in map flows north-south, 3-5 tiles wide,  80% of it covered by hills. Mountains on south side of map, 3 cave systems with insects. 50/60 days of growing. Defending this map should be easy.
     We begin making shelter, living in 1x2 bedrooms, and eating raw food. I search for steel and find 6 nodes guarded by insects, one in the top left corner of the map and no others. Very odd for a mountain map. A week passes and we have recurve bows all normal or better and wooden war masks.
     Raid: 1 club wielding pyro. Dead.
2nd week: A grizzly bear and a warg tried to hunt colonists. They were outranged. Deconstructing the stone buildings on the map yielded us 1500 stone blocks across 4 types. 3 bedrooms, a prison/hospital and a warehouse were built.
     Raid: 2 club wielding pirates. Captured, became lovers AND proposed in my prison. Recruited one so far which is sad for everyone. Their lover is my second best warden and cant quite convince them somehow?
Refugee event. Pawn I got is incapable of violence (ugh.) but has passion for many things. Two attackers brought us the worst poor revolvers you could imagine. They paid with their lives.
     Third raid brings an excellent autopistol user and another terrible revolver. The revolver dude lights my second research table on fire (warehouse had an opening because expanding it) and by the time he has done that his partner has received his fair share of arrows to the face.
I do feel that raids should care more about fighters vs fighters numbers but perhaps this is just the difficulty I chose. Why would they think that a 2v6 is favourable and come all this way to attack us especially when they have stronger weapons? Either bring more people or more tactics.
     At this point I rename my colonists so that I know who is male and female and give them names I can pronounce.
     It's about day 30. Peace talks event went good, +60 rep with tribe, but returning caravan appeared in the south cavern and was immediately under attack by the insects in it. Frustrating that they would do that when every other side of the map is open.
     At the end of summer a toxic fallout hits and lasts 12 days, a cold snap starts the same day the fallout ends. Crops are ruined. Thankfully I'm greedy and my growers love growing so I have plenty of corn and healroot. Wood however is depleted by the end of this, and my prisoner nearly gets frostbitten because his clothes deteriorated to nothing.
     A week later another peace talks with an outlander faction, went poorly, -20, but they didnt become enemies. They are however still enemies with the tribe. I knew this when I got two trade caravans in one day. My colony's wealth went up from 30000 to 38000 in under a day. I buried 9 strangers and took the silver and the goods I had sold back from the downed caravan. Rescued one from each side for a slight boost in rep. And stripped a merc of their flak gear, sent them home naked in nice weather.
     I only lost a table and a baby alpaca in the fight, while proving that my base set up can handle mercs armed with grenades and LMG's. The tribesmen would have won the fight if they used the bows I sold them. They lost 5 melee people without getting hits in. this was fun to watch and benefit from but I hope it isn't too common.
     If this sort of thing were to be more common I would expect compensation for hosting the fight or choosing sides, or even staying neutral and allowing all traders to pass freely. As it stands even If my colony was large enough to settle disputes like this, I am powerless to diplomatically resolve it.
     I get the feeling not many people play on phoebe but it is the most relaxing. It is also the hardest to level medicine without resorting to carving up every prisoners left ears kidneys and lungs until they die. Doing such things should honestly dissolve rep from their factions or make it harder for factions to trust you. I wouldn't want to trade with torturers and cannibals.
     Every 3 days cargo pods bring some kinda vegetable or textile. I have had medicine and components rain down before but I'm not that lucky all the time. Just need to research how to melt steel.
     Alpaca revenge from taming. Colonist downed. Day later their torso is infected. Kinda my fault for not cleaning the hospital but kinda her fault for fleeing into another alpaca. Can we just have fleeing pathfind them towards their last bed in the home zone?
     Unrelated note before I forget: it is virtually impossible to see if a bed is being affected by a vitals monitor. If this would be more clear somehow that would be great. Perhaps the ghost thing like workbenches have.
     Apparently I have a uranium longsword. Is it worth using I wonder. Highest pawn with melee still has more shooting.
     60 days in. 3 alpacas get the plague. So nice of me to have stored that where they sleep.
there's a cat with a shattered spine still laying in my base from that merchant skirmish. I don't know if killing it incurs penalty so it sits there.
     Day 61: raid. 5 people. 2 knifes. 2 molotovs, 1 revolver. They appear on the only side i've built a wall. The wall does not reach the edge of the map but the hill it is attached to comes close. I predict they will split up. I have 6 people capable of violence and I severely outgun these fools. Being on fire sucks and a colonist runs outside the walls in panic because it is in the home zone. They get downed and are burning. I call bullshit and load the game for the first time. There is no reason to run outside into a firefight with no cover when you were standing beside two people who can put that fire out and they would all be behind the wall at that point. A lot of this game to me is fighting the AI for control... cant really be helped. At some point the game would play itself. It is silly to me that that could be prevented by changing the home zone.
     After loading: fight went better and nothing dumb happened. One of their people got burned and got 4 infections to 70% before I released them. They probably died 5 minutes after that but it doesn't matter somehow.
     My builder with 4 social got inspired recruitment. I have one prisoner left. Guess what happened. I suppose they'll be married soon
     3 people got malaria. Glad I didnt send them out for that prisoner.
     Remember that cat that couldnt move? A warg ate it. I lost 3 rep. Fair enough.
     Escape pod man is staggeringly ugly. He's also a cook, animal handler and a researcher. He hasn't joined so my researcher who is currently the best smith of my 9 colonists is filling out the request for 8 normal or better ikwa(s). I'm not sure what the plural is. Apparently you can make them out of wood... so whatever. I get a minigun out of this trade. Dude makes a masterwork wooden ikwa. I refuse to use it.
     Day 79 Raid appears and waits at the edge of the map. I have 5 people with 3 greatbow, 1 bolt action and 1 assault rifle pick away at them until they attack. They "attacked" and lost another and fled. Captured 2 of them.
     Trader showed up with a pet alphabeaver: it promptly ate 10 of my half grown cocoa trees. Later that week Rhino self-tame, hooray!
     Caravan traded successfully, went sideways to an incapacitated refugee. Hopefully no threat there. Aaaaaand half the caravan got muscle parasites. So Howard is unlucky. I only sent two people and an alpaca.
     Simple meals keep rotting away. People keep eating pemmican first. No way to stop that without forbidding pemmican every time it is made, which is tedious and unfun. Perhaps make simple meals tastier than pemmican?
     We have no fruit bearing trees. Just saying.
     Back to the caravan. After patching up the refugee, I noticed our food didn't last, our dude with muscle parasites also has frail. He hunted 2 muffalo for food with the new minigun and then snapped. Spent 9 days of juggling mood swings and food poisoning, I have made a tiny base for 3 people so that they are ready to head back home, which should only take 2.5 days with adequate supplies. I overshot it, and we have 8 days of food now. Better safe than sorry.
      Wanderer joins, ascetic tunneler in perfect health. Can't complain about this one. Which reminds me, is tunneler supposed to be super common? I find it so often when rerolling pawns.
      Caravan shows up I trade away clothes for silver, and gift them 7 healthy alpacas for 44 rep. Then they got hit by cargo pods when leaving. an alpaca died and i lost 3 rep. unavoidable, glad it didnt hit their people, i thought this was fixed or was that only for the player faction?





[attachment deleted due to age]

[Ardshael]

I currently have 6 types of recreation without the use of drugs or chocolate: Solitary relaxation, social interaction, dexterity play, cerebral play, telescope study, and television watching.

Ahhh OK. Thanks. The telescope is a 6th type of recreation. I don't have one. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen one this game.

[Revshawn]

Been playing Randy Random intense on butt naked start and completed my first year of the game. I've been playing off and on for a while and I had a few successful runs before this, but I've got this weird thing in my brain where I've got to start a new game every time the game is patched. And since the game is being patched nearly every day now, sometimes twice a day, I've made many restarts along the way. I think I'm in a spot where I can finally make comments on the early-mid game.

First off, I think the game is in a very good spot right now combat-wise. I haven't gotten a chance to get plate armor yet, but I've dealt with flak jackets and pants and the new armor system is a treasure. Submachine guns and other fast reloading weapons are the weakest in this new system by far. Rifles and heavy damage pistols like the revolver with high accuracy rule the day. Snipers as well to a lesser extent because of high skill needed. I think the most important thing as far as combat is concerned is, equipped properly, pawns are far more durable and much less prone to randomly lose important limbs from a single attack. Which in all honesty just isn't fun.

I think the changes to missions were a great change. The trade rewards are in a good state right now. Every once and a while you'll get something silly like a Golden Pet Box or something that there's no way you would take that mission, but I went from doing zero missions in 0.8 to doing two or three in your average year if I have the materials required. However, the missions to rescue colonists are simply too risky to ever take part in. I would still like to see some system where we can see the stats or at least get a general idea of the colonist we need to rescue. You have to use a caravan, putting your own colonists and several days of munitions at risk to rescue a single person, so there's no way you would do that to get a pyromaniac wimp who won't do skilled labor. In the current state, those missions are a non-starter for me. I *might* do the colonist rescue missions depending on who got kidnapped, but again that's because I know their skillset.

As for skills, I feel like crafting is a bit hard to get started from scratch. It's a small change, but it would really help if you buffed the amount of work required to do clubs. That would really help get to the early level 2 crafting where you can craft a shortbow, which could mean life or death in your run at the early stages of the game. Right now, clubs are just too easy to make so when I'm trying to train crafting, I just run out of material. I end up filling entire storehouses worth of clubs, sellable of course, but I'd much rather have constant training so I can get to level 2 and the shortbow.

By the way, Randy Random is a tremendous jerk. I played for about 2 Quantums and I didn't have anything happen to me. And then suddenly, I get 12 raids in a single Quantum, sometimes 12h apart from each other. I've been able to overcome this with a swastika defense ring in the middle of my base, two wooden walls with the middle lined by death-falls. Don't judge me. I didn't realize what I was doing till I already did it and it works so...I'm fine with it! And I've noticed that Raiders are far less willing to chase you down those hallways. Not sure if it's a programming change, but good job on that. Seriously though. 12 raids in a Quantum? I've got no way to get rid of bodies, so they've been piling up on the opposite side of the map. I think I'm at close to 30 bodies now and two prisoners. It's been a trek. Thanks Randy Random. I'm a year into the game, 9k colony wealth, one pawn and every raid is averaging 3-5 raiders with a combination of bows and knives. Easily defendable with some luck, but it's been a rough road.

I think the difficulty to recruit from savage tribes needs to be nerfed ever so slightly. Most starts give you an outlander union, a savage tribe faction, and a pirate faction all hostile to you. But I never encountered a raid from the outlander union due to which I assume is my low colony wealth and the average person I imprison from the Savage tribe is around 75-99% difficulty to recruit and I think that is a little too high. I also find it's pretty hard to find colonists to recruit with high intelligence among tribes, which is essential to progressing in the game. That's been my experience in just this game and I've been looking at the stats of every raider that comes through, but that's just been the occurrence in just the one game I played so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

For the most part, the items I'm equipped with are the scavenged items of my enemies. And while I haven't had a chance to do it in this game, animal swarms are still pretty strong and a valid strategy especially with the changes to ranged combat ending when you enter into melee range. It works great with boar swarms and the Alpaca army. Animal training XP ramps up a little bit too quickly now that you can repeat training with animals you already have. Especially if you have the flame. You fly up to level 10+ before you know it with a pawn, especially if you have a flame. I think that needs to be nerfed a bit. Not much though!

Those are really all the thoughts I have right now! It's been a fun game so far. I'm not sure if I'll progress much further. RR Intense with butt naked start is difficult. By the time I'm done cleaning up after the last raid, another raid is coming!