Unstable build feedback thread

Started by Tynan, June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

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Greep

1.0 Mods: Raid size limiter:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42721.0

MineTortoise:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42792.0
HELLO!

(WIPish)Strategy Mode: The experienced player's "vanilla"
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43044.0

PlutoniumJesus

Notes from my latest attempt on Naked Brutality Cassandra Hard Permadeath:

World was generated with version 1.0.1951 and survived to today running on 1.0.1954. Many errors were shown when loading after game updates but I have yet to see 1.x crash or corrupt a save and performance has been alright. A minor inconvenience is that my preferred method of launching the game via the Steam notification area menu always starts the 32-bit version - which I quit as soon as possible since I always want to run the 64-bit version.

I spend an embarrassingly long time rerolling before finding a good colonist candidate since I won't accept anyone with severe disabilities, addiction, or terrible traits for this attempt. Finally RNGsus grants me Stephen, the 50-year-old Human Computer with burning passion for shooting and mining. He is Too Smart, Ascetic (great for Naked Brutality), and Super-Immune. The latter is perfect since all my previous attempts at Naked Brutality ended with death due to infection - herbal medicine was never enough for immunity to catch up, but Stephen should have a chance to survive.

Stephen crashes into the Bluetrout Swamp, a temperate swamp featuring a huge river flowing from the north to the New Abeneiro Ocean to the south, and some small hills thanks to the Northern Sharp Fox Mountains directly bordering the area to the east. On the west river bank is a small valley between slate hills with a steam geyser and a 6x10 marble structure which Stephen claims as initial shelter.

Stephen is able to establish basic amenities fairly quickly with amateur construction skill and trains his crafting skill by making awful steel knives until reaching the level 2 skill required to make a poor quality short bow for hunting and fighting off the first few raids. Stephen never bothers burying attackers; corpses get dumped out of sight in a remote area of the swamp where they deteriorate relatively rapidly. Near the end of spring he acquires pants, shirt, and a very nice hyperweave parka from an escape pod survivor. I think there may have been a game bug preventing me from rescuing the survivor - he bled out in the mud - but at least Stephen did not have to be naked any longer.

At the start of summer a raider brings a poor quality autopistol which Stephen equips and gets a lot of use out of (it isn't replaced until the end of the year). A wanderer named Mushinto joins the colony, he is a 47-year-old Bounty Hunter and a Greedy Night Owl. Mushinto's burning passion for social skills makes him the colony negotiator and he also assumes responsibility for cooking despite being entirely uninterested (Stephen is even worse at it).

Summer is spent digging out a well-insulated cryostorage area inside one of the nearby slate hills. The river bank is very irregular and consists almost entirely of mud and rich soil, but there was one spot close to the freezer that could be made to support a watermill generator. My favorite new 1.x feature is reinstallable work benches (I hate wasting resources by deconstruction just because I built something on the wrong spot) but finally being able to smooth rock walls without mods is a close second. With the freezer complete, work begins on an adjoining kitchen and dining room.

Nutrition from hunting is supplemented with berries (which curiously all magically changed color in a game update) and some rice grown on the generous amounts of fertile soil. During the summer Cassandra also blesses the colony with regular cargo pods filled with drugs, including almost an entire stack of medicine which came in handy for treating malaria and flu later.

In fall the colony accepts a refugee chased by a few not very well-armed bandits. Her name is Tzaeru and she is a Steadfast Abrasive Brawler Paramedic, bringing expert medical skills as well as some needed professional experience working with plants (neither Stephen nor Mushinto could grow healroot). Shortly after her arrival a lengthy volcanic winter begins and a cold snap forces everyone to move into the now completed kitchen - it's the only room with heating. Tzaeru is stuck idle inside until the cold snap lifts since she lacks warm clothes, but Stephen's hyperweave parka allows him to work full time outside despite the cold and he is busy building a new hospital/laboratory building next to the kitchen.

Stephen is a professional researcher but can never find time to actually do research due to other critical responsibilities and constant raids from all except one neighboring faction. The colony struggles greatly with mounting a good defense without access to decent firearms or turrets, but somehow our brave trio manages to fight every raid off with just the aforementioned autopistol, short bow, and steel knife. Our luck can't last - Cassandra is not going to keep sending weak bandit bands and natives forever.

At some point in the winter a game update removes the research requirement for bridges, allowing the colony to build a bridge over the huge river. A dozen or so chickens join the colony and I unwisely decide to build a wooden chicken coop on the river bank next to the bridge. I wish I could build more resilient, fire-proof bridges out of stone or steel - this thing is basically built out of fuel! A while after the chicken coop was completed - but before I found a way to feed the chickens and not having them lay eggs all over the map - a 5-man pirate raid arrived from the east, this time with scarier gear. One had an excellent autopistol, two had poor quality revolvers, one had some kind of melee weapon, and one had a good quality incendiary launcher.

Stephen and Mushinto managed to get some shots in while the pirates killed chickens, downing the melee pirate. Tzaeru killed the autopistol guy with her knife on the bridge. A lengthy shootout followed, with several incendiary shots landing on the bridge and near the chicken coop. Eventually the last pirate fell and my badly wounded colonists could focus on trying to quell the big chicken coop conflagration before it spread to the dense vegetation to the south of the colony. The coop, bridge, and nearby farms were a lost cause. Chickens on fire were running all over the place; all of them except one rooster died. The pirate bodies and their weapons were destroyed in the fire, except for the excellent autopistol which could be salvaged as a weapon upgrade for Stephen. Stephen and Tzaeru recovered fully from their wounds but Mushinto got his left eye cut out, leaving him with permanently poor sight.

There is a period with fewer raids allowing the colony to rebuild and recover somewhat. In Septober the second year a new pirate raid arrives, this time seven strong - armed with automatic weapons and frag grenades. With my colony severely outmanned and outgunned, I decide to activate my secret weapon of last resort: the nearby ancient shrine. The plan is to hide behind a two tile thick slate wall built on the west side of the small valley and let the pirates fight with whatever evil lurks within the shrine.

With the pirates closing in from the west, Stephen deconstructs one of the ancient shrine marble walls and starts running towards the slate wall door leading to the colony. It's not very far at all - only eleven tiles - but the ground is marshy and there is dense vegetation impeding movement. Mushinto and Tzaeru are waiting on the other side of the slate wall. Inside the shrine are three ancient cryptosleep caskets, four advanced components, seven luciferium, an orbital power beam targeter, two lancers, and a centipede equipped with a good quality heavy charge blaster.

The mechanoids immediately emerge from the opened shrine, filling the air with charged projectiles. Stephen gets hit by three blaster shots and a lance shot and falls unconscious near the shrine. The pirates arrive and open fire on the mechanoids. Stephen lies in the crossfire and gets hit by three more shots. Mushinto and Tzaeru can only wait and hope for an opportunity to rescue the colony founder. One of the pirates paths around the northern hill, wading in the river and enters the colony from the east. Tzaeru acts as tank using a recently acquired steel club while Mushinto fires arrows at the pirate, who soon succumbs dropping an excellent quality machine pistol.

Meanwhile the pirates on the other side of the wall have killed both lancers and brought the centipede to a sliver of health while losing two of their own. A barrage of charge blaster shots hits a grenadier, downing him. With four of their ranks lost, the remaining pirates flee in panic. The centipede starts moving towards the colony. Mushinto, now equipped with a machine pistol, attempts to provide suppressive fire in cover while Tzaeru tries to rescue Stephen. She almost makes it back but gets killed by a volley of charge shots, dropping Stephen - who dies from blood loss shortly thereafter. Despite his cover, Mushinto gets hit by a charge shot to the torso, falling unconscious. The nearly destroyed but still fully functional centipede proceeds to tear the colony buildings apart while Mushinto bleeds out. GG

The colony lasted for 85 days, reaching a peak wealth of about 23k of which 16k was items.

xion1088

Can we get "Allow Sowing" on hydroponic basins? That would be neat

Alenerel

Do you think its possible to put again the 3 burst round in the assault rifle?

Alleykat

Hi Tynan, first time poster here. Long time fan of the game, enjoying 1.0.

Wanted to mention that I liked that predatory animals hunted humankind, added tension to the survival element and has caused drama for my settlers many times.

Was playing a fresh game today and noticed a Warg was starting to wonder real close to my poorly defended settlement. Normally this would mean coming up with a solution – usually a hunting party. The last time this happened, my best shooter had his right eye wounded by the predator and developed an extreme infection. Spent the next in game day worried I would have to remove the eye or he might worsen. Fortunately he developed immunity and recovered.

But if he hadn't, my best shooter was going to either die or get his eye excised by his surgeon body purist wife cause of a mishap with a dangerous animal. This is the RimWorld drama that I love.

Knowing it's not going to harm my pawns, meant I didn't have to proactively hunt it down and the tension (and potential story outcomes) wasn't really there anymore. I felt like something was missing cause I didn't have to worry about a predator hanging about the neighbourhood.

That being said I see why the change was made, it was frustrating to lose a pawn cause you didn't notice an angry bear in the corner of the map etc.
I suggest having this toggle back on with medium difficulties or higher? That way it's an optional feature that can be switched off for those who want to focus on peaceful base building.

When I'm playing to survive, I personally enjoy the fact that the environment might kill my colony before raiders do.

Wintersdark

I, for one, am really happy that predators aren't hunting my colonists anymore.

I in no way object to the danger predators present!  In fact, I'd be all for them hunting.

The problem is the mechanics.  In the current (as of B18) release, it's very often a death sentence because you don't know until the panther/wolf/grizzly is eating your colonists' face.  Even if you react instantly, it's often physically impossible to rescue them... and if the predator is hunting, it's not just going to down your colonist, it's going to kill and eat him. 

It's one of very few things that I just got to the point of instantly save scumming.  It would just seem - rarely, for sure! - that a colonist would be going about his business, then just die, and there's nothing I could do about it.  That's just not good gameplay.

qwertyasdf

will my old saves still work when 1.0 is released?

Alleykat

Quote from: Wintersdark on July 06, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
It's one of very few things that I just got to the point of instantly save scumming.  It would just seem - rarely, for sure! - that a colonist would be going about his business, then just die, and there's nothing I could do about it.  That's just not good gameplay.

Yeah I know what you mean, I've also save scummed due to this exact thing. But it often depended on what kind of gameplay I was looking for in the moment. If I'm in RimWorld Soap Opera Survivor mode, a sudden devastating loss is exactly what I'm looking for.

But I see your point about the gameplay. I've made a suggestion in my post above and others have too - hoping there's a way to balance this out rather than removing it. I have had it previously create some really great moments.... 

...poor Maske... Maske was eaten by wolves.

Teleblaster18

#1718
I could envision a possible notification:

"One of your colonists is being menaced by X (bear/wolf/lynx)" 5 to 10 seconds before the animal actually attacked.  I have no idea if it's feasible to do so from a coding standpoint (time spent on this mechanic vs. end result).

In no way is it a deal-breaker or major issue for me, personally, but I enjoyed quite a few unexpected tangles with wildlife on my first Naked Brutality start.  I saw it as in keeping with the game's style:  if you don't pay attention to what you're doing, you'll pay for it.  I was careless, and sent a couple of colonists into harm's way without checking what was waiting for me, and paid the penalty.  Having the "Wildlife" tab there made it super-easy to check, too...especially since all the predators are specifically marked...I just forgot to do it.

I enjoyed that element quite a bit...I thought it was a lot of fun.  If it stays gone, that's fine too...but I think it adds flavor to the game.

PatrykSzczescie

#1719
I feel like Tynan knows himself some of his changes look embarrassing while releasing them and he just intends to get a feedback on this part so he makes sure the final release will be approved by majority.

RemingtonRyder

Predators can, obviously, still hunt your animals. So it's still going to make some interesting stories.

Tynan

Some changes are indeed experimental.

I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

bbqftw

#1722
I will say that as long as pawn behavior includes occasionally hauling items onto deadfall traps / then ignoring forbid commands to path over said deadfall traps to haul said items to construction jobs, I am very happy that deadfall friendly damage is removed.

I have no problem with punishing 'greedy' trap setting where its clearly unpathable, but pawns should not deliberately do blatantly suicidal things like that outside of mental break behavior. Maybe also some provision for pawn tolerance for pathing through traps, it seems a bit silly that even ~10 tiles path difference will cause a pawn to happily walk over a deadfall instead with risk of permanent brain damage / instant death.

mndfreeze

Quote from: PlutoniumJesus on July 05, 2018, 10:58:21 PM
Notes from my latest attempt on Naked Brutality Cassandra Hard Permadeath:

The colony lasted for 85 days, reaching a peak wealth of about 23k of which 16k was items.

This sounds pretty similar to most of my playthroughs.  I seem to get to anywhere from 15k to 25k in value before I start getting greatly out gunned and the colony loses.

mndfreeze

Quote from: Tynan on July 06, 2018, 01:32:46 AM
Some changes are indeed experimental.

I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.

While I despised having my colonists killed by a hungry polar bear that appeared on the ice sheet all the way across the map, and I definitely save scummed quite a few times due to it, if you bring it back please just give somne sort of warning flag before hand.  That's really the only part that made is ultra terrible.   We get a warning for a mad animal, a hungry hunter is basically the same thing and keeping track of every single predator on the map is a bit of a silly expectation for a player to have.