Unstable build feedback thread

[Jovlo]

The rats often set IED's on fire, which then can explode as my colonists try to extinguish them.

Whoa. Somehow even though I had IEDs triggering on rats, I haven't thought of a possibility when I'd lose a pawn because of a rat jumping on explosive IED near him. xD Even funnier/scarier then if he accidentally triggered it himself.

Well, it was the fire of the boomrat's death that put the IED on fire.
The IED was close to a trap that killed it, the trap killed the Boomrat, not the IED.
My colonist almost exploded when he tried to extinguish the IED.
Haven't seen any IED's triggered by animals yet.

[Sirinox]

Well, I haven't actually saw the rat — there was no urgent notification or any harm to pawn so game wasn't on pause and it was some time after I heard explosion when I found it, so possibly it was a bigger animal, but I saw only rats (and my pawns) near it, so my best guess was that it was a rat.

[TheMeInTeam]

Player-VS-environment and immersion. Because if wargs are peacefull to the point they rather starve to death than attack a human - something they were engineered for from their description, then why have them present at all?

You could make a similar case about manual cleaning and how that adds immersion.

Really though I just don't want to see more rote micromanagement in the game.  I'm not opposed to predators being dangerous or hunting pawns, there's plenty of stuff that can kill pawns after all.  The issue prior to recently was how dangerous this interaction was when compared against the notification + micro requirement.  For an example of how asymmetric threat vs notification really can be, compare this to the fact that you get an event warning for the presence of beavers :p.

If we hold that tactics like "path abuse thrumbo over long time" and "door peek vs manhunter events" are degenerate/uninteresting due to the time it takes to do these things, manually hunting for predators is in the same boat.  Even with wildlife tab, you can't safely hunt them solo. 

Draft hunting is nearly 100% safe, but given the comparative frequency this is literally more of a grind than if you kill every thrumbo that ever enters the map with nothing but pistols.  The latter takes less IRL time and is more forgiving for mistakes.

Another useful counterplay measure would be if predators actually targeted meat/fresh corpses over pawns.  I've seen people claim they do in the past, and it would be a nice mechanic if it worked, but that's not how Rimworld has functioned wrt predator targeting, while leaving some caribou meat out would be a nice failsafe on those otherwise small-game sparse Tundra maps.

[EdgarDruin]

After starting another game of 1.0 and plugging along, I find something I constantly miss in the early game when I don't know my colonists very well and even throughout the game as you add colonists is an overview of skills. 

A single chart with all colonists with all skills values showing so I can quickly see who my best medic is, who's my best cook, who's my best at construction, who should I pick for this and that and the other. 

Clicking on a pawn, then character then going through all the pawns again to see if I'm picking the right break point for a bill for crafting this or constructing that or force building a bed so I don't get another awful one.  Which colonist is best for that again?

There are certainly ways to find the information, but the number of clicks required, or mouse overs if I use the work tab is onerous when done over, and over and over again throughout the game.  And you never really get to see it all in one place, you have to hold all that in memory while chewing on decisions.

Or, maybe there's a hidden function that already does this and I just can't find it.

[Sirinox]

You could make a similar case about manual cleaning and how that adds immersion.

No I couldn't, that's a false statement. Having to manually order pawns to clean is nowhere near a definitive part of creatures — "dangerous" predators — behavior. It's more like "let's make raiders and mechs peacefull, so we don't have to micro around".

Though this can be an argument for a button to automatically mark predators for hunting. This would add to hunters job, adding defender and population control role to just meat gathering, and will motivate player to gear up hunters better, choosing healthy fast pawns for that work and giving him/them animal companions.

Really though I just don't want to see more rote micromanagement in the game.

It's not that I want more micromanagement, you possibly getting me wrong. My vote is for better notifications about predators and auto-hunt, not for have more micro. Though it's not to exclude all micro occasional positional tactics play either.

Even with wildlife tab, you can't safely hunt them solo.

But I can. I do it in my current game  right now — my hunter is healthy, fast, has high accuracy, good quality weapon and one-two husky companions. Even wargs rarely get close enough to scare him to flee and be finished by dogs. It's as safe as hunt can immersively be, imo.
 

Draft hunting is nearly 100% safe, but given the comparative frequency this is literally more of a grind than if you kill every thrumbo that ever enters the map with nothing but pistols.  The latter takes less IRL time and is more forgiving for mistakes.

Draft hunting is ok, it is as it should be because it is not a hunt, but rather a direct attack mission.
It's up to player to decide, does he want to hunt that way or not (or it is a possibility in a situation with no other option — like if it's a early game and he has no reliable hunter yet, but needs food)

Thrumbos are not supposed to be hunted in other manner, like by one hunter. That's why they are peaceful yet have high revenge chance and so hard to kill.  It's either you fight (not hunt) them — so you draft pawns, get them in positions, plan ahead and micro, or you don't bother and let them move along.

Another useful counterplay measure would be if predators actually targeted meat/fresh corpses over pawns.  I've seen people claim they do in the past, and it would be a nice mechanic if it worked, but that's not how Rimworld has functioned wrt predator targeting, while leaving some caribou meat out would be a nice failsafe on those otherwise small-game sparse Tundra maps.

Well, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.

[D-Wiz]

After starting another game of 1.0 and plugging along, I find something I constantly miss in the early game when I don't know my colonists very well and even throughout the game as you add colonists is an overview of skills. 

A single chart with all colonists with all skills values showing so I can quickly see who my best medic is, who's my best cook, who's my best at construction, who should I pick for this and that and the other. 

Clicking on a pawn, then character then going through all the pawns again to see if I'm picking the right break point for a bill for crafting this or constructing that or force building a bed so I don't get another awful one.  Which colonist is best for that again?

There are certainly ways to find the information, but the number of clicks required, or mouse overs if I use the work tab is onerous when done over, and over and over again throughout the game.  And you never really get to see it all in one place, you have to hold all that in memory while chewing on decisions.

Or, maybe there's a hidden function that already does this and I just can't find it.

The work tab has this information graphically (maybe only in the "Manual priorities" mode?). It shades the boxes lighter colors for better workers at that task, along with displaying the colonists' passions for that task if they have one. Mousing over the box shows the actual relevant skill value.

[5thHorseman]

After starting another game of 1.0 and plugging along, I find something I constantly miss in the early game when I don't know my colonists very well and even throughout the game as you add colonists is an overview of skills. 

A single chart with all colonists with all skills values showing so I can quickly see who my best medic is, who's my best cook, who's my best at construction, who should I pick for this and that and the other. 

Clicking on a pawn, then character then going through all the pawns again to see if I'm picking the right break point for a bill for crafting this or constructing that or force building a bed so I don't get another awful one.  Which colonist is best for that again?

There are certainly ways to find the information, but the number of clicks required, or mouse overs if I use the work tab is onerous when done over, and over and over again throughout the game.  And you never really get to see it all in one place, you have to hold all that in memory while chewing on decisions.

Or, maybe there's a hidden function that already does this and I just can't find it.

I both agree with you and offer my personal workaround in case it works for you: The Work Tab.

I set my best doctors to priority 1, my worst to priority 4, and those in the middle to 2 and 3. Then when raiders incapacitate 5 people I can pop open the work tab and instantly see who's the best. Same for cooking and all other skills. Sadly "Social" isn't mappable to anything (Warden maybe?) or I'd also know who to send to the Caravan to buy and sell for me.

Now that pawn joy doesn't go up with preferred jobs, I have started ignoring preferred jobs for this QOL change. Though there's a lot to say for using the preference to train up in peacetime.

[Sirinox]

After starting another game of 1.0 and plugging along, I find something I constantly miss in the early game when I don't know my colonists very well and even throughout the game as you add colonists is an overview of skills. 

A single chart with all colonists with all skills values showing so I can quickly see who my best medic is, who's my best cook, who's my best at construction, who should I pick for this and that and the other. 

Clicking on a pawn, then character then going through all the pawns again to see if I'm picking the right break point for a bill for crafting this or constructing that or force building a bed so I don't get another awful one.  Which colonist is best for that again?

There are certainly ways to find the information, but the number of clicks required, or mouse overs if I use the work tab is onerous when done over, and over and over again throughout the game.  And you never really get to see it all in one place, you have to hold all that in memory while chewing on decisions.

Or, maybe there's a hidden function that already does this and I just can't find it.

The work tab has this information (maybe only in the "Manual priorities" mode?). It shades the boxes lighter colors for better workers at that task, along with displaying the colonists' passions for that task if they have one. Mousing over the box shows the actual relevant skill value.

There is also an option to click on a job name in work tab to sort them by skill level.

[Oblitus]

I both agree with you and offer my personal workaround in case it works for you: The Work Tab.

I set my best doctors to priority 1, my worst to priority 4, and those in the middle to 2 and 3. Then when raiders incapacitate 5 people I can pop open the work tab and instantly see who's the best. Same for cooking and all other skills. Sadly "Social" isn't mappable to anything (Warden maybe?) or I'd also know who to send to the Caravan to buy and sell for me.

Now that pawn joy doesn't go up with preferred jobs, I have started ignoring preferred jobs for this QOL change. Though there's a lot to say for using the preference to train up in peacetime.

Wardening is social, but trading is more than that. Trading also affected by health and inspiration, so pawn with best social does not necessarily best negotiator. In fact, the same thing with everything. A most skilled doctor who is missing an eye or arm, or just has a hangover is not always the best candidate for the job.

Another useful counterplay measure would be if predators actually targeted meat/fresh corpses over pawns.  I've seen people claim they do in the past, and it would be a nice mechanic if it worked, but that's not how Rimworld has functioned wrt predator targeting, while leaving some caribou meat out would be a nice failsafe on those otherwise small-game sparse Tundra maps.

Well, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.

Predator usually would prefer a corpse, but only if a said corpse is around and not always. I never bury raiders (I don't want to turn my map into giant graveyard), and still even having access to fresh corpses does not always grants safety.

[Revshawn]

Some changes are indeed experimental.

I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.

I'm fine with manhunter attacks! I just don't like the sudden nature of them. What would be good is if a animal was to go manhunter you get a notification for it so that you can prepare accordingly.

[RemingtonRyder]

If we hold that tactics like "path abuse thrumbo over long time" and "door peek vs manhunter events" are degenerate/uninteresting due to the time it takes to do these things, manually hunting for predators is in the same boat.  Even with wildlife tab, you can't safely hunt them solo. 

I've found that the best time to send a hunter to take down a predator is after the predator has finished fighting a particularly difficult prey. They're wounded, and therefore take fewer hits to down, and potentially can't retaliate as quickly or as effectively.

So the Wildlife tab is useful in that regard, just keep an eye out for wounded wargs, for example, and then jump to them and mark for hunting.

[Sirinox]

Another useful counterplay measure would be if predators actually targeted meat/fresh corpses over pawns.  I've seen people claim they do in the past, and it would be a nice mechanic if it worked, but that's not how Rimworld has functioned wrt predator targeting, while leaving some caribou meat out would be a nice failsafe on those otherwise small-game sparse Tundra maps.

Well, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.

Predator usually would prefer a corpse, but only if a said corpse is around and not always. I never bury raiders (I don't want to turn my map into giant graveyard), and still even having access to fresh corpses does not always grants safety.

Close enough. It's normal that predator won't go on the other end of the map for a corpse if he has fresh meat near it, it's as pawns food searching so that they won't run for a lavish meal across the map if have nice meals nearby. In Ice Sheet if I intent to buy my colonists off predators I'll have to lay the bait somewhere around my colony in some distance from it, nothing wrong with that. And rare other cases are for story moments.

Well, rather than making predators peaceful at lower difficulties, maybe it should be so that they don't spawn as wild animals at low difficulty and only arrive with caravans as animals for sale? It's just that storyteller decided to tell a story about a colony that had not experienced dangers of predators near it.

[PatrykSzczescie]

I miss natural tornadoes. Once Tynan removed them, there has been only 1 feedback regarding this, who said that they were a useless addition. I have a conversation with other RW players discussing Tynan's updates and one of them said that he'd stop playing if tornado incidents don't happen in the final build.

I won't speak for his reasons, I will speak mine. I kinda liked this feature in B18. The thrill if it doesn't hit my colony. Twice I had to rebuild my power sources after tornadoes. Stone walls were receiving slight damage due to them, but it wasn't that serious. It becomes more of an issue with a larger colony, as it's more likely to hit your buildings. Maybe I haven't experienced this destroying my legendary beds or wiping out all my medicine but this incident may create many interesting stories.

[vzoxz0]

There is also an option to click on a job name in work tab to sort them by skill level.

Skill level isn't, and never has been, very representative of actual work performance. It's very tedious looking at all the stats constantly to figure out who's best at what.

[Zombull]

I don't mind dealing with predators. I just need to know they're there. Maybe just show a notification on screen any time a colonist sees a predator. Colonists with limited eyesight wouldn't see them as far away.