Unstable build feedback thread

[TheMeInTeam]

But I can. I do it in my current game  right now — my hunter is healthy, fast, has high accuracy, good quality weapon and one-two husky companions.

That's not what "solo" means .  And cleaning is similar - it's a routine task that becomes necessary intermittently.  If you don't do it, you run the risk of bad consequences (from mood hit, a significant risk on highest difficulties where you're a full -8 compared to default at all times).  The game does it automatically and you're not at risk of pawn death from not optimizing this...but what if you were?  What if you HAD to manually clean, or you'd lose people significantly more frequently?  That's early 1.0 and earlier predators.

You distinguish hunting from draft fighting - but here's the thing.  Hunting is dangerous, by design.  A single hunter can draw pack aggro or miss a few shots vs angry predator and get into big trouble/die, especially when you don't have animals to cover for you.  If you draft hunt decently...that outcome is basically impossible.  The cost/benefit and risk are disproportionately in favor of "draft hunting".

Suggestion: On a side note, I'd like to be able to designate a cleaning area.  Auto-creation of home area forces a lot of zoning micro.  Some stuff doesn't need to be cleaned routinely.

Well, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.

Definitely not.  I don't have recorded footage like I have for a significant portion of the rest of my comments on this thread, but I have witnessed a wolf ignore a fresh animal corpse to the point of running past it to attack a pawn.  I have also been "hunted" by predators multiple times despite having recently defended a raid (numerous raider corpses still on the ground, not rotted due to winter). 

I have no idea what the predator targeting algorithm does or what it's supposed to do, but I can 100% verify that predators do not consistently target fresh meat that can't fight back over pawns.  I have not tested this with butchered meat, but it's definitely the case for corpses.

[vzoxz0]

To be fair, the Warg really shouldn't prefer corpses to live beings.

Edit (since no one posted since I did):

I found a weird bug -- toxic fallout is supposed to corrode items, but it isn't mentioned when you select an item that is outside. Is it actually being degraded faster? I can't tell.

[Oblitus]

To be fair, the Warg really shouldn't prefer corpses to live beings.

Edit (since no one posted since I did):

I found a weird bug -- toxic fallout is supposed to corrode items, but it isn't mentioned when you select an item that is outside. Is it actually being degraded faster? I can't tell.

Not sure about items, but any pawn killed under rain instantly becomes rotten, so you can't survive fallout by hunting anymore.

[Perq]

Yet another... caravan feedback! \o/ (woooo)

Been doing some intense caravaning (who knew? D:) and to be honest, I find myself never use pemi or packaged food.
Why? Well, two reasons:
- It takes forever to make (considering other options)
- There is no way to prevent pawns from eating it, therefore wasting time and resources (no, I won't micromanage every single stack :V)

What I usually end up doing is simply slapping some raw vegetables on caravan and calling it a day. It is heavier, it is clunky, it gives debuffs, but honestly it isn't that much of a deal, compared to how bothersome making special food is.

Not sure how to resolve this, or all implications of what I think may be possible routes. So there goes:
- Make special caravan food less of a hassle to make (this includes its cost and ability to prevent pawns from eating it instead of regular food), maybe even make it an upgrade from regular food, so that we're only sacrificing some time preparing it (meal+work = packaged food? dunno). Problem: if you make it too easy to make, players will simply make lots of it instead of making a freezer. Killing off food shortage in power loss events and so on. Tough one
- Allow cooks in caravans to cook on the go. If caravan has a cook and caravan has raw materials, food treated as if it was simple meal. Of course cook skill affects the quality of meals and/or the amount he can actually make (to prevent people from taking lvl 3 cook to get rid of a penalty in 15 person caravan). If this is implemented, I think maybe you could even make food poisoning from eating raw meal on caravans more frequent (or severe). Maybe even add some diseases to the mix. As is taking raw food is simply the best option with little drawbacks.
At least it feels like it. D:

[robno]

Text bug: mouseover text for 'Pretty environment' reads 'This place look nice'. Quite funny!

[Crow_T]

my opinion on traps:
there should be a trade off for the security and reuse ability they offer, also ever since I started laying them in a checherboard pattern so pawns can weave through them they haven't been an issue. Again, the onus is on the player to use the tool given to them in a good way.

[Sirinox]

But I can. I do it in my current game  right now — my hunter is healthy, fast, has high accuracy, good quality weapon and one-two husky companions.

That's not what "solo" means .  And cleaning is similar - it's a routine task that becomes necessary intermittently. 

Isn't it? Well, it is unless you count huskies that are designated to follow and defend him as hunters, and they rarely take action. It's not "unnecessary micro" either. His colleague has no huskies, only his mastery, healthy (not bionic) legs and good sniper rifle — despite I check it when animals revenge them he also rarely needs too much attention.
I don't quite get it — what do you mean by "routine task"? He hunts automatically at marked animals, same way for predators and herbivores, as any hunter does. Same way pawns automatically clean designated home area if set to clean in work priorities.

Hunting for dangerous animals alone with mediocre weapons and/or unhealthy pawn may indeed be too risky. But that is why they are called "dangerous".

If you don't do it, you run the risk of bad consequences (from mood hit, a significant risk on highest difficulties where you're a full -8 compared to default at all times).  The game does it automatically and you're not at risk of pawn death from not optimizing this...but what if you were?  What if you HAD to manually clean, or you'd lose people significantly more frequently?  That's early 1.0 and earlier predators.

Then current solution is as to throw away cleaning at all. I don't think it is fair to compare something as (supposed to be) dangerous as living among cobras and hungry wargs with just cleaning.
Same argument goes for raids, mechs and infestations. That's why it needs same alert, not being deleted.

As for

you're not at risk of pawn death from not optimizing this

it's not true. My injured solo colonist at NB start got food poisoning and fell to the ground outside his room the same time tribal attack happened. Solo tribal warrior just grabbed him and left.
Dirty kitchen ended my whole colony.

You distinguish hunting from draft fighting - but here's the thing.  Hunting is dangerous, by design.

Well, shouldn't it be?

A single hunter can draw pack aggro or miss a few shots vs angry predator and get into big trouble/die, especially when you don't have animals to cover for you.  If you draft hunt decently...that outcome is basically impossible.  The cost/benefit and risk are disproportionately in favor of "draft hunting".

Again, shouldn't it be so? Same goes for hunting herbivores as well due to some of them have revenge chance too and pack of drafted pawns can kill them all way faster and safer being directly commanded rather than hunter doing his job. So what, carefully planned full group field operations are better at killing things than plain hunting, I see nothing wrong with that. It's not a necessity, It's just a matter of preparation.

What's wrong with this kind of death? It's not unjustified, сonversely it's well explained: pawn was mediocre shooter or just unlucky and had no back up, failed to run away and so he died hunting. That's a part of a story. Should pawns be immortal? Pawn can get unlucky hit through the brain and die, pawn can aggro muffalo or caribou herd and die, pawn can get heart attack far from base and die, pawn can be caught at the edge of a map by mechs or pirates suddenly landing nearby and die. Hell, once my pawn decapitated another pawn by destroying his neck in social fight!
Honestly.
There are even resurrection mech serums now.

6 pawns can get ambushed by 14 scythers on a rescue mission — and, well, most likely die if not fast enough to run away — on a side note about ambushes being scaled with colony wealth instead of caravan strength. It was scariest "no known threats" surprise ever.

Suggestion: On a side note, I'd like to be able to designate a cleaning area.  Auto-creation of home area forces a lot of zoning micro.  Some stuff doesn't need to be cleaned routinely.

Auto-creation of home zone can be disabled.

Well, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.

Definitely not.  I don't have recorded footage like I have for a significant portion of the rest of my comments on this thread, but I have witnessed a wolf ignore a fresh animal corpse to the point of running past it to attack a pawn.  I have also been "hunted" by predators multiple times despite having recently defended a raid (numerous raider corpses still on the ground, not rotted due to winter). 

I have no idea what the predator targeting algorithm does or what it's supposed to do, but I can 100% verify that predators do not consistently target fresh meat that can't fight back over pawns.  I have not tested this with butchered meat, but it's definitely the case for corpses.

Funny. I haven't experienced that yet, but I'll take your word for it. Guess manhunting predators food searching behavior worth being checked. If it returns I mean.

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[Wintersdark]

Some changes are indeed experimental.

I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.

As I said above, I'm all for them in theory.  But I'd ask, please think really hard on how to announce it - at least have a red letter for when a colonist has starting being hunted.  It sucks to have carefully murdered all predators, then have a colonist meander off going for a walk and you only find out something's wrong the moment a surprise grizzly is mauling them. 

To be completely clear: I'm not in any way adverse to the danger; I love it.  Having lots of predators in a biome makes for a more interesting and challenging game!  Just not a fan of "Oh, look, a colonist is dead" from a gameplay perspective. 

A notification (when they start hunting, not when they attack) would be ideal. 

Maybe even just a blanket "There's few prey animals on the map, and predators are getting hungry!" warning - this could serve to increase gameplay depth: keep lots of animals around and predators are very likely to leave you alone.  Hunt all the prey animals (or not pay attention after an animal killing event) and you reap what you sow.  Then you've got both gameplay and "realism" factors: Animals will generally not hunt humans when their normal prey is abundant.


Edit to add:   Wouldn't a simpler solution be -

1) Leaving predators not hunting colonists.
2) Have predators, when starving (as in, beyond just the point where they'd hunt normal game) go manhunter exactly like the random "animal goes manhunter" event?

Manhunter generates a notification already, and utilizes already understood systems and behavior.  Specifically, turrets will protect your colonists in these cases, as will other nearby colonists (if set to attack instead of flee combat).

[Oblitus]

Seen a lot of cases where pawn with >90% recreation stopping work and walking through half of the map to relax for a few seconds and get back. Especially notable for my quick sleeper pawn since she tends to be up at night.

[robno]

Maybe even just a blanket "There's few prey animals on the map, and predators are getting hungry!" warning - this could serve to increase gameplay depth: keep lots of animals around and predators are very likely to leave you alone.  Hunt all the prey animals (or not pay attention after an animal killing event) and you reap what you sow.  Then you've got both gameplay and "realism" factors: Animals will generally not hunt humans when their normal prey is abundant.

This seems like the perfect solution. The problem was that there is very little you can do when a polar bear is in your face and you have e.g. a pistol. The notification when the hunt starts might be helpful, but even then there is often little time until the attack, and the predators can be faster than the colonists. Maybe the predators should only hunt colonists below a certain hunger threshold (if there are no other food sources) and at a higher threshold, there should be a yellow warning.

[Wintersdark]

Maybe even just a blanket "There's few prey animals on the map, and predators are getting hungry!" warning - this could serve to increase gameplay depth: keep lots of animals around and predators are very likely to leave you alone.  Hunt all the prey animals (or not pay attention after an animal killing event) and you reap what you sow.  Then you've got both gameplay and "realism" factors: Animals will generally not hunt humans when their normal prey is abundant.

This seems like the perfect solution. The problem was that there is very little you can do when a polar bear is in your face and you have e.g. a pistol. The notification when the hunt starts might be helpful, but even then there is often little time until the attack, and the predators can be faster than the colonists. Maybe the predators should only hunt colonists below a certain hunger threshold (if there are no other food sources) and at a higher threshold, there should be a yellow warning.

Yeah, as per my edit above, I'd like to see predators simply go "Manhunter" (with all that entails) when their hunger dips to "starving".  It makes sense (if it's starving, your plump, juicy pawns are gonna look extra tasty), and it *works* because your other pawns and turrets will help defend a pawn being attacked instead of just ignoring it.

[Mihsan]

I really love that traps can now be springed by animals (whatever happens - please dont take it away). But it's a bit exploit'ey on winter maps w/o any natural food for animals - they will all charge to get any food that I leave (see screenshot).

Also funny thing about it: I had colonist get "run wild" mental state. I lost my sight on him for some time and was wondering where did he go. Found him dead on activated trap. Not sure if it's a bug (will report anyway).

[attachment deleted due to age]

[erdrik]

Imo animals shouldn't have x-ray vision spotting food through your walls from other corner of the map in the first place. And removing that will eliminate the problem with them always getting caught on traps.

They should, however, have a strong sense of smell which can pick up scents through cracks in doors and other only partially sealed obstructions. But mechanically speaking the abstractions would be close enough to the same thing to not matter.

[Awe]

What's up with giant overpowered raids against my tribal colonies? All the time the same story: steady stream of weak raids and then suddenly this giant thing with doomsday launchers, power armor and miniguns... It looks off. Is this because I crafted that legendary wooden plate armor and masterwork marble table?

Same story. Master/legendary quality equipment add so much to colony value. Just raise from 500k to 850k in one year mostly because of equipping all my 30+ pawns with power armors and charge lances/rifles. With significant increasing of raids strenght. 

Excellent quipment set: helmet 1k, armor 3k, lance 2k, pants/shirt 0,5k and pawn itself 2k. 8,5k just in one pawn... Btw, legendary lance worth 8k, charge rifle 6k, sniper rifle 3.2k. 4x times more than excellent with almost same stats. Probably a good idea stick to good/excellent and just burn a better. 

PS What the soft cap on pawns count? I have 32 now and still have decent chances on recruiting. Also have quest on incapacited refugee...

[TheUnspeakable]

Has anyone else had an issue with the options on the tailoring bench overflowing the available menu space?  With the way it is I can't set the resume options on any of my clothing production lines.

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