Unstable build feedback thread

[Jstank]

I just noticed that if you don't put on manual priorities, doctoring just does not get done. That is if it is just checked with a green check mark the colonists will ignore the job.

[Greep]

Regarding caravan site ambushes, it definitely really needs a lot of work even if the theory is sound. This is one specific area where I think players really need to document difficulty used, colonists at home and colonists on caravan.  While higher levels (extra hard/ extreme) should be harder, caravans are an experience that is meant to be played on all settings.  Sometimes there's a bit of asymmetry in the difficulties, like mortars are more useful on harder settings, and wake-up for profit is only useful on easier, but caravans should not be this way.

I visited a site with an ambush and that site had more raiders in the ambush than my entire colony at home had colonists (1 on caravan, 3 more at home, 5 on ambush?!, randy extreme)  That's just never going to be doable!  My guesstimate is that it feels like the site ambushes use a 40-70% multiplier on colony strength, whereas they probably need a 5-15% multiplier. 

Personal opinion here:  Caravans should really be less about about being hardcore and more about the experience.  I wouldn't mind lower rewards if they were considerably more doable.

Looking at your example sirinox, looks like you sacrificed a bunch of muffalo, and risked losing every single one of your colonists ( if the muffalo died a bit too fast you would get ovverun), and lost 5 people's time in your colony potentially risking a raid with 5 less people, and could be further ambushed on the way home. 

For a refugee that could potentially have a brain scar. Very very very worth it without permadeath.  Completely and utterly worthless otherwise.

This is just totally whack.  Then add on what could happen on a higher difficulty level, and it just becomes totally pointless.

[Madman666]

What was the difficulty level?

It was Randy, hard. Not extreme if you think thats the reason.

Well, 5 people with power armors and 5 muffaloes have a decent chance to shred 16 raider (~8 actually, because it's enough to make them flee), though not with risk or casualties, so it's as it should be imo. But I'd say they all should be at least decent fighters, some melee fighters could be useful as well.

5 people? Shred 16? Under fire, without cover, with melees coming close quarters? Are we playing same game? And no, on "hard" it should be hard, but not impossible to avoid casualties with fine play. Right now it is not so. 5 people should not get attacked by 16.

You could sacrifice muffalos to save the pawns, 5 muffalos would beat the raiders coming close pretty easily.

That would lead to me not getting anything of value from that event, since muffaloes would die, which ultimately leads to the same conclusion - not worth it.

That a nice tragic story too.

Not everyone enjoys suffering and tragic stories. Some people actually have fun being successful.

Before approaching a reward or incapacitated pawn it's useful to prepare defenses, at least a small defensive line and a room to hide in for if you'll need a melee advantage.

Ambushes shouldn't be treated same way as storming an outpost, with bringing mortars, making defensive bunkers and etc. Its an ambush. Not a full scale assault. Same with trade caravans not having to double as a war party. You're not going for war, you are delivering some food for god's sake.

[PatrykSzczescie]

I tested predators' hunger. They take consuming survival meal package as the highest priority, over hunting for an animal. When they're hunting for a colonist, the letter sound and background music change as if there was a raid. Also, the letter appears with a little of delay. If the predator is close to one of your colonist, the colonist might be attacked before the letter appears. If the colonist hides in a building, the predator will change a target. If the predator decides to attack another colonist, another letter will appear. It means we might be getting spammed with letters. Also, when a predator attacks a colonist for the second time, a letter appears much later after initiating a hunt, comparing to a hunt for the first time. When a predator hunts for a tamed animal, we're not alerted until it's attacked.

I think there should be no battle music when a single predator is hunting for a colonist (the music is supposed to be played during faction assaults or manhunter packs - a group attacking) and the letter should give the same sound as for mad animals. However, I'd be even more grateful if the player wasn't alerted with a letter, but with a notification (at the top of the screen). Letters are supposed to inform us about random events initiated by a storyteller. Predator hunting is not a random event. The same would go for some of the player decisions, such as starting a caravan or revealing an area - those should be informed with notifications above.

Also, about caravans, I kinda like when factions are fighting each other without me participating in. However, I concur what Tynan did with them. You can also debuff the abuse that you can call for military aid when a faction hostile to them but not to you has visitors/traders/travellers in your area, i.e. by giving a badwill (don't forget to warn a player before asking for military aid if you're implementing exactly this).

[dnmr]

I'm sick, so slowing down slightly in recent days.

looks like it leaked into flak armour research description too, it says "This weighty armor so slows movement somewhat", pretty sure a word needs to go or be added https://i.imgur.com/E1d2eeC.png

Get well soon

[East]

 I like Android and Luciferum. It makes people move crazy fast.

In the real army, there is a team that "waits five minutes". If an emergency occurs, this team will respond first. In five minutes. At rimworld I make this "Five minute wait" pawn with bionic leg and luciferum.

[rdshen]

Pitching in with a small observation I haven't seen around here just yet.

My pawns won't prefer power armor to devilstrand duster + flak jacket/pants. I understand the armor might be similar over chest but coverage is far different. They also prefer advanced plasteel helmets to power armor helmets. I get if the power armor helmet is low hp it makes sense to prefer, but even fresh good power armor gets ignored.

In my previous power armor ready game, I didn't have devilstrand, and when I would set a persons outfit to allow power armor they would go swap it out first thing even with flak.

[ZE]

Some posts were removed; this thread is for discussing play experiences, not open-ended suggestions, theorizing, or questions.

This thread is not for discussing the change list. Discussions of or questions about the change list will be deleted. This thread is for discussing play experiences and giving feedback based on play experiences. You're welcome to make another thread to talk about the changelist if that's what you want to do.

i actually didnt know this, i too am guilty of just suggesting things. my bad.

most of my play experience is tainted with mods, so its not entirely genuine, perhaps i should give it a go and report.  but even without playing the base, and just with mods, i do feel strange about the wetness thing as i had posted in the past.... that being said i wont just post suggestions again without some gameplay to back it up

[Gfurst]

New build!
I'm sick, so slowing down slightly in recent days.

Solid list of changes, really liking to see you taking people reports into consideration.
On that note, make sure you take a break as well, as I know hectic it can get, don't forget to get proper resting and nutrition.

[Sirinox]

I visited a site with an ambush and that site had more raiders in the ambush than my entire colony at home had colonists (1 on caravan, 3 more at home, 5 on ambush?!, randy extreme)  That's just never going to be doable!  My guesstimate is that it feels like the site ambushes use a 50-70% multiplier on colony strength, whereas they probably need a 10-15% multiplier. 

Well, it still suits the new description of "Extreme" in the menu tooltip. No clean game, brutal unfair situations.
Though 1 colonist caravan has stealth bonus to offset how risky it is to travel alone.

5 people? Shred 16? Under fire, without cover, with melees coming close quarters? Are we playing same game? And no, on "hard" it should be hard, but not impossible to avoid casualties with fine play. Right now it is not so. 5 people should not get attacked by 16.

5 people with power armor. Ambushing pirates rarely have it. It makes huge difference.
And trained animals. And, probably, battle drugs/drop pod assist. It's not impossible, it just not reliable, and occasional casualties should be expected.

That would lead to me not getting anything of value from that event, since muffaloes would die, which ultimately leads to the same conclusion - not worth it.

That is a price to win a battle, to save pawns lives. Ambushes supposed to be dangerous, right?
And no, it wouldn't, some muffalos would probably just be incapacitated and could be healed back to carry enough things. That's what I got in my play. One muffalo was killed, the other was healed back and we went home.

I'm just wondering, had you drop pods at the stage of game?

Not everyone enjoys suffering and tragic stories. Some people actually have fun being successful.

It's ok. That's why there are different difficulty levels and storytellers.
But some tragic stories are really good too.

Ambushes shouldn't be treated same way as storming an outpost, with bringing mortars, making defensive bunkers and etc. Its an ambush. Bot a full scale assault.

Why not? I'm not talking about mortars, they are useless on such small maps, but making a camp with some defenses when you out there in dangerous surroundings makes sense. That is something common in military deployment events.

Ambushes are also risky and sometimes deadly.
Or you can flee from it if it's an ambush guarding a treasure or a refugee.
Or you can prepare for it. It all makes for different gameplay possibilities.

I'm not saying that such events couldn't use some tweaking. I'm just saying that it's not that bad, not to the point of "completely broken".

[Madman666]

1) Power armor doesn't offer perfect protection. Bruises will take you down as efficiently as bleeding gunshots. It helps, but not against 1 to 3 odds in small map without cover. In fact if random screws you over - you can just get oneshot through it, as if you were naked.
2) If a price to win a battle is more than the gain you were after first place, why even use caravans then? I can just stay home and deep mine and trade. Caravanning should be a viable alternative to those things, not a super epic tough quest to stay alive and get back, crippled but alive and smiling. Its not a warzone. Ambushes are supposed to be dangerous. Not crazy.
3) Why not? Because you aren't attacking a fort or a citadel of dark forces. You go out to mine resources, why would a whole army of raiders lie in wait guarding an ore lump? Or one crippled abrasive grandma with a broken spine? Its neither a legendary power armor, nor a pack of miraculous ressurector serums you get from heavily guarded outposts. Not very logical.

And about being broken lets envision the situation. Instead of 300k wealth you have 600k. Such amounts are really aren't that hard to reach naturally. You have 15-18 colonists (thats the usual normal amount, except for longer Randy plays which can reach 40-50). That means you will have an ambush of... 32 raiders. On that small map mostly without cover. If you still feel thats fair and doable without cheescaking it with doomsday launchers, i think we should stop here.

[Revshawn]

I tried a few games of Naked Brutality Extreme Randy Random just to test out the infection disease chance changes for small wounds. After fighting minor mobs in rats and squirrels with a club in melee, I got an infection 3 out of 4 fights from minor wounds no more than 5 damage.

Ehh. Just doesn't seem like a fun game mechanic to me right now. I mean I can play around it so I can 'win', but an infection from a minor wound proving to be lethal to a 20 year old just seems strange to me.

Also, feel better soon!

[iamomnivore]

Some changes are indeed experimental.

I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.

Kreygasm

[Sirsir]

I'm not sure why, but suddenly EVERY animal on the map flooded into my farmland. Theres a little grass on the map but not much.

Also I have a wild megasloth downed from extremeblood loss with no wounds? Literally the only thing on his health tab is the blood loss...

[Sirinox]

1) Power armor doesn't offer perfect protection. Bruises will take you down as efficiently as bleeding gunshots. It helps, but not against 1 to 3 odds in small map without cover.

Yup, it doesn't offer perfect protection, it offers better protection. So while they down your pawn you have good chance to down more of them in most cases, and make them flee.

In fact if random screws you over - you can just get oneshot through it, as if you were naked.

It works for both sides, and it's something expected from a gunfight. It's not about not having casualties at all, it's being more successful in general.

2) If a price to win a battle is more than the gain you were after first place, why even use caravans then?

It depends on how well they fight and from Randy's mood in your case. He is not very reliable guy.

3) Why not? Because you aren't attacking a fort or a citadel of dark forces.

It's still a dangerous lawless planet with quite enough dangers, pirates and other menaces. There are already enough reasons to be cautious. Carelessness will find no clemency in this place.

You go out to mine resources, why would a whole army of raiders lie in wait guarding an ore lump? Or one crippled abrasive grandma with a broken spine?

That's easy. It's because they know that rich guys from nearby colony tend to go for such things, and they want to catch them.

And about being broken lets envision the situation. Instead of 300k wealth you have 600k. Such amounts are really aren't that hard to reach naturally. You have 15-18 colonists (thats the usual normal amount, except for longer Randy plays which can reach 40-50). That means you will have an ambush of... 32 raiders. On that small map mostly without cover. If you still feel thats fair and doable without cheescaking it with doomsday launchers, i think we should stop here.

That's a wild speculation, let's not envision something like this, I highly doubt there is such plain distribution. Speaking from experience, in 1.0.1956 for a colony of 25 people, ~350k wealth, Cass Extreme I got for ambushes:
- 3 manhunting megasloth
- 14 mediocre equipped raiders (no or almost no power armors, weapons from pistols to snipers)
- 14 scythers
- another ~15 raiders ambush
- something about 18 raccoon
vs 5-7 pawns mostly in power armor, some of them were melee with shield belts, and 3-5 muffalo. It didn't feel like crazy even though I expected it could be.

Every map I've encountered yet had plenty of stone chunks which give decent cover, and quite often some hills and/or structures as well.

Thanks for reminding about rocket launchers. This things are sure useful last option, I totally forgot to take this with my caravans.