Unstable build feedback thread

[Mihsan]

One note - there is a new factor in the history graphs tab called Ramp-Up. This is a balancing factor that's only displayed in dev mode. It would be really good if anyone who plays a year+ game could screenshot this graph and post it here. Thank you.

I cant find it.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[iamomnivore]

... clearing camps, mining lrms sites. I would like to see the curve for ...

I misread your comment as "destroying LRM sites" ... and it hit me! What would be cooler than having to "explore the world" and use the overland map to take out prereqs to launching the ship or some other win condition Saint Tynan may come up with for us

Seriously, a requirement to take out one or multiple surface-to-air/space defense systems before one can even think about launching the ship. What about other challenges to launching, aside from this weird raidageddon? It'd be nearly as much work to travel all over the world to disable these systems. Maybe a way to disable the entire mechanoid resistance? Conquer some kind of global ECM factility?

This could also create more motivation to leave one's beginning tile.

[iamomnivore]

Thats also true. If you don't have one, or aren't lucky enough for storyteller to toss you one - you can get real stuck on research.

That's trade off / risk.
The same can be said that if You don't have a miner You get stuck on steel/stone blocks, if You don't have grower you get  stuck on food growing, having no good doctor makes you stuck with dead/scarred pawns or if You have pawns with low shooting/melle you're stuck with little combat ability.

100% agree. Trade-offs and risks. Ladies and gents -- start considering this aspect of design / play. In the immortal words of The Rolling Stones: "You can't always get what you wa-ant!"

[RemingtonRyder]

Hey guys,

The ramp-up graph doesn't work for existing saved games for some reason. It should normally plot a point every day. It does work with a new game.

[YCFCj]

Just finished a Cassandra Hard playthrough where I died at the hands of a raid.

**I'm not a die hard player. I don't know the stats differences between a parka and a button shirt, I just assume the parka is warmer. I usually do what I think is fun and interesting**
- I last played about 6 months ago. I've played A16 and up.

Synopsis of run:
I converted a raider who was then rebuffed so many times by a happily married colonist he killed our beloved cat. Everyone went crazy after that....


+ve's:

-Doors. Having less health makes sense and is actually more fun. You can still pop in and out to get shots off but any raid of substance and you either need to have constructed a bunker or be prepared for a proper fight. I like this change
- Combat. Prefer this set up where you can get away from melee fights without a scratch. However, i'm very unclear on the actual difference in armour. I mean, I know from reading on this forum the benefits, but I found ploughing through the stats on each item too arduous and so just equipped whatever sounded like it might help. Maybe this is my problem and I'm a simpleton, but if I'm relaxing playing some rimworld I'd like to know what an armour can do in one line (e.g. "this is good at stopping stab weapons but bullets go right through") because I don't find the minutiae of stat padding fun.
-I really like the combat log.
-very glad prosthetics are in
-bridges are great. Adds a whole new range of tactics


-ve's:
-possibly my fault; about 8 colonists got captured during a raid (I know), leaving me with 2. This was a fun point in the game as it was an epic battle i'd just survived. Only afterwards... nothing happened for absolutely ages. I appreciate I was given time to sort myself out as i'd screwed up but it was really boring. I'm not saying I should be instantly given more colonists again; I was equally as keen for another raid. But just my 2 guys plonking around a big base were extremely comfortable but couldn't make much progress either. Idk maybe its my fault for not downsizing or the fact the 2 remaining colonists were a bit rubbish. Maybe it was just this run, but I remember the game being a bit pacier (?spelling).
-speed. Relating to the above point, can we have a x4, x6 or x8 speed. I'm impatient yes, but I don't really need to see my colonists sleep. And if I've got a good routine set up, I'm often just waiting for my guys to, for example, collect x so i can build y, or research something. It feels like theres quite a lot of this and rather than mess with the whole balance of things by, for example, further changing research speed, I think speeding up more would be a very simple solution..
-Caravan. I still find this difficult to make viable unless you're already dominating the game. Its fun, which is why I do it, but I'm fairly certain my colony is much worse off for not having 2+ colonists doing their job for at least 10 days, let alone the resource cost and high chance of death or injury. Especially as the rewards rarely advance you colony, they're just cool things to have.



Overall this game keeps getting better and better. Thanks dev(s?) the constant work is much appreciated

[iamomnivore]

I agree with the trade stuff: While I wrote for the patch before that, that I got way to many offers, I now got only one world event in a year or even longer. Could just be back luck, but I think this is too rare.

I haven't had a faction mission in 3 years and I am lucky to get a trade request every 1 year, and when I do get them they are almost always of no value to me.

These numbers look way off. On average you should get a world quest every 7 days (except during the first 25 days). I couldn't reproduce it though, not even with the "Log future events" debug option. Could you send me your savefiles?

Inversely, my latest game has recently seen four world quests in less than a fortnight. Maybe even in a shorter time period. It's a little overwhelming. How would you like the save files?

Also, still seeing additional threats on world events that weren't listed. Not sure if that's intentional. (E.g. "two turrets" was actually "Two turrets and a very well-geared Terminator guard." I'm not even far enough in to think about handling that guy.)

[mcduff]

Also, still seeing additional threats on world events that weren't listed. Not sure if that's intentional. (E.g. "two turrets" was actually "Two turrets and a very well-geared Terminator guard." I'm not even far enough in to think about handling that guy.)

I just had one where it was two turrets, a mortar and a guy with a doomsday missile. Luckily I managed to beat the bad guys but I'd spent so long hiding underground that all my caravanners ran out of food and went crazy.

[Madman666]

When i was digging in precious lump related incident files, i've seen it mention 1 guard (that "terminator" you were talking about). I've also seen one each time it mentioned just turrets, so i am pretty sure its intentional. Freak bit one pinky off of my team, when i forced him into melee.

[iamomnivore]

When i was digging in precious lump related incident files, i've seen it mention 1 guard (that "terminator" you were talking about). I've also seen one each time it mentioned just turrets, so i am pretty sure its intentional. Freak bit one pinky off of my team, when i forced him into melee.

Ah, man! LOL. These bites are hilarious!

[rdshen]

Regarding late game wealth scaling, I think there's a reasonably natural solution that I haven't seen explicitly mentioned.
Raid wealth calculations could be modified based on the accessibility of the wealth.
Just to throw out numbers, loose metals and drugs could be 1.5-2x contribution, while heavy furniture like fancy beds (which aren't worth the wealth liability at the moment) could be reduced to 0.5. Meanwhile things like firepower and equipment and turrets could be somewhere over 1, explained by raiders seeing a dozen turrets and bringing a few extra guys.
I don't know exactly what effect that sort of thing would have on numbers in all stages of the game, but to be quite honest on my reasonable wealth hard colony the raid sizes seem almost under-tuned at the moment.

As it is right now I definitely feel while playing the drive to artificially keep my wealth low and to simply stop improving on the base in non-combat ways beyond a point. There's another wealth based motivator to keep resources spent which is definitely good though. It'd be nice to have fewer resource sinks be ruled out as strategically disastrous.

Edit:
Wealth graph
https://imgur.com/a/LUWQK2N
Boreal hard 30/60. Lost only one colonist to a raid, few limbs but not so much that I'm still making bionics

Edit2:
Decided to play a few mins since I opened up to look at wealth. I just got a 7 polar bear manhunter pack. They didn't even come close to touching my melee fighters and I have zero turrets online at the moment. Very undertuned imo.

Edit3:
Final edit. Trying to replace concrete with sterile tile. People removing one or two blocks of concrete and then going to move small numbers of materials to build tiles. Little inefficient priorities. I assigned remove floor but they're still prioritizng building the new one first.

[Golden]

Yes, thanks, I am aware that at least in the past, many or possibly most players never actually built the ship. It's a designed-in legit playstyle, it's just hard to design for since each test run takes ages and the runs tend to be heterogenous. So it's hard to get data.

Just so you know, Tynan, I have 929 hours in RimWorld and I ALWAYS try to build the ship and take off.  At times in 18 and earlier, I would give up if I couldn't get the core after completing the rest of the ship or I couldn't get enough of the scarce materials like gold or uranium and just start a new colony, but I never planned to go further and most of the time I did take off.  I like doing this game with a beginning and a successful end.  I don't enjoy dragging things out forever.

I've never tried the cross-country caravan to the polar ship, but the colony is what I play for. 

[Talys]

Two small "bugs" I found in the last bits of playing
(1) if you have two colonists building walls, they can get pushed into the same tile (which needs a wall aswell) - and because it's two pawns on the tile, they don't build it... see attachments
(2) The forced miss radius of the autocannon turret is not symmetrical (it's a circle with radius 8 based on the south east corner of the autocannon) - same for the sniper turret - attachments again

[attachment deleted due to age]

[Huruk]

Hi guys, playing unestable version 1.0 I'm unable to play since 10 minutes ago. Maybe the last update...

Debug trace:
Juli started 10 jobs in one tick. newJob=UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110075) A=Thing_Wall430495 jobGiver=RimWorld.JobGiver_AISapper jobList=(UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110065) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110066) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110067) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110068) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110069) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110070) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110071) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110072) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110073) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110074) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110075) A=Thing_Wall430495)  lastJobGiver=RimWorld.JobGiver_AISapper
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.JobUtility:TryStartErrorRecoverJob(Pawn, String, Exception, JobDriver) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobUtility.cs:22)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:217)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:120)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:544)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:505)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)

See you!

[erdrik]

FYI, for those that can't find the Ramp Up tab:
To use the Ramp-Up tab in history, you need to first activate it in the view selections at the top of the screen while dev mode is on.

Dev Mode > Open the View Settings > 4th from last

[dnmr]

my dogs are still exploding on IED traps https://i.imgur.com/oW8J33r.jpg

This can't be intended behaviour, right?