Unstable build feedback thread

[Oblitus]

So, what can I say about new researches...
Geothermal, sterile materials and autocannon are effectively gated behind microelectronics (since it needs high-tech bench), so current position is misleading.
Microelectronics and multi-analyzer are still giving 50% research speed bonus, and rushing them is even more tempting.
Plate armor and other low-tech gear still look like a trap card. Flak Armor + Gunsmithing - 4500 points (including electricity, 2900 without), and all except flak armor has future development. Plate Armor + Greatbow + Long Blades - 3800 points, and only Smithing has future development.
11000 points for already hard nerfed deep drilling?
Nerf hits early game hard. The stack of slower experience gain and slower research mean that without a pawn with very good initial stats that you can dedicate to research you are very screwed.
2600 for multibarrel weapons? Really? Usability of minigun is questionable even if you'll get one for free.
Does anyone ever use smokepop belts?
Why is firefoam popper gated behind microelectronics, while firefoam shells and IEDs are not?
With harder geothermal reach river start feels even more enforced.

[Wintersdark]

More animal weirdness yay!

Had a toxic fallout, started madly building hydroponics since it happened right when the short boreal growing season starts.  And it was the shortest toxic fallout in history: 4 days! Go randy!

Because of the instant animal rot, this means that any predators who don't go unconscious before they go hunting now all go manhunting on your butt, since they end up killing everything because they can't eat the corpses.

Additionally, I had a grizzly bear go manhunter and when I shot it, it just ran away 

More manhunting weirdness:  A remote warg decided to go manhunter and gave the message, then almost immediately switched to hunting a raccoon.  This may have always been happening and is only noticed with the new message system.

There's a difference between "manhunter" (that is a status, where they'll continue to hunt any humanlikes until they pass out) and simply hunting humans (which they'll pop up a letter for; "[Animal] is hunting [Specific Pawn]."  If they're just hunting, then yeah shooting may work (but may also prompt revenge) but if they've actually gone "Manhunter" (the status) then they'll keep at it till downed.

it was my understanding that the animals were close to their earthly counterparts, not identical. still would be nice to know if that is correct.

Sure, but 37kg is a *lot*.  That's a fox that weighs in over 80 lbs.  I hope it gives a lot of meat and leather.  Hell, a 10kg rat is a 22lb rat.  That's a hell of a rat.



Research:

• I really enjoy the research speed being way slower.  I find it makes it worth making "mid range" equipment that I'd normally just not bother about on my rush to high end gear.
• Plate armor and long blades cost way too much.  There's too much really important early research (batteries, solar, turrets, microelectronics for the bonus research speed/benches, etc; investing the early research time in plate seems ridiculous given how comparable it'll be to research flak armor and such on your way into guns.
• Overall research gain speed is, from my perspective, pretty good.  I tend to have poor researchers only for the first part of the game as it's pretty rare to get a good researcher who doesn't otherwise gimp you in the initial set of three colonists - at least, I don't ever try for one.  I like that I'll actually make guns before Assault Rifles now whereas in the past I'd just research more then make Assault Rifles/Charge Rifles.

I've been working hard at using caravans to test how they (and quests) work in 1.0.  One weird problem I've found is how captives are treated when you arrive home.

Normally, if you (for example) make a new prison cell, and "un-prison" a prisoners current cell, a warden will come and guide the prisoner to their new cell.  This behavior works well, and looks fantastic from a player perspective.

When you arrive home with captives, however, your caravaners just leave them at the map edge (in restraints) and go about their day.  The captives then (very slowly - restraints) walk to their prison cells.  There are two problems with this.

First... Why are they walking to their cell?  Why not just leave?

Second... They trip every trap they cross, and they cross every trap between them and their cell.  I just had a slaving run Bandit Camp clearing quest arrive back at my colony, only to have all my prisoners kill themselves on my base defenses when trying to get to their cell.  This was particularly unfortunate as one of the prisoners was my main doctors' lover.

Obvious solution: Have pawns guide the prisoners to their cells, exactly as they guide a prisoner from a not-a-cell-anymore to their new cells.  Ideally, you'd have the caravanners simply guide them in when they arrive back on your colony map.

[5thHorseman]

Rat and squirrel corpses weight around 10 kg !!

"What about the R.O.U.S's?"
"Rodents Of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist."

[Bones]

Rat and squirrel corpses weight around 10 kg !!

"What about the R.O.U.S's?"
"Rodents Of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist."

That actually explains a lot, if a 10kg squirrel jumped at me I bet I would lose a few limbs to it, probably an eye too!

[Greep]

@winter, yeah I just meant hunting pawn in those cases, not "an X has gone manhunter", I think it says manhunter these days on the pawn's description but maybe it doesn't.

[Oblitus]

Pawn with liver injury got an infection. Due to that wound, blood filtration is nearly non-existent and infection is progressing at an unbeatable rate.

[Lanilor]

So, what can I say about new researches...
Geothermal, sterile materials and autocannon are effectively gated behind microelectronics (since it needs high-tech bench), so current position is misleading.
Microelectronics and multi-analyzer are still giving 50% research speed bonus, and rushing them is even more tempting.
Plate armor and other low-tech gear still look like a trap card. Flak Armor + Gunsmithing - 4500 points (including electricity, 2900 without), and all except flak armor has future development. Plate Armor + Greatbow + Long Blades - 3800 points, and only Smithing has future development.
11000 points for already hard nerfed deep drilling?
Nerf hits early game hard. The stack of slower experience gain and slower research mean that without a pawn with very good initial stats that you can dedicate to research you are very screwed.
2600 for multibarrel weapons? Really? Usability of minigun is questionable even if you'll get one for free.
Does anyone ever use smokepop belts?
Why is firefoam popper gated behind microelectronics, while firefoam shells and IEDs are not?
With harder geothermal reach river start feels even more enforced.

This is quite the same what I experienced.

I always think twice if I really need to research anything that has no follow up researched. It's nice for everything "unique and useful" like batteries and such, but why invest 1200 in bows if it is the half way to guns.

The higher research points result in ... well ... slower research. Now my colonist needs to stand next to a bench for 5 days instead of 3 for a key research. I like the slower system a bit, but it is also more boring. It's still that you rush the important only on another speed. It misses some form of "extra spice" than just choosing the same optimal nodes every time and standing next to the bench.

And the really high costs at the end just drag the game on. This may be intended, but for me after some point when I built all essential parts of the base, the game gets more boring since there is less to do for me. Like raids always have the same frequency. They could become a bit more often. Part of that is better now with more quests and stuff on the world map, which is fun. I still had a really boring period during the last winter in my game where caravaning was highly inefficient and nothing else happened.

[Greep]

Been about 3 seasons since last update on the base.  Fully moved into the caves, and fully built up the infrastructure. Everything's stablish, but the steel crunch is pretty crazy with the whole deep drilling nerf and turret maintenance.  Completely unable to build more than one hydroponics circle or equip myself, so infestation defense is very light and profits are pretty much 0.  So I've basically been spamming stone deadfalls everywhere to hope that deals with infestations (probably won't).  Chemfuel is also a big drain, might have to sell some stuff I like to buy wood->fuel once my pocket for drilling runs out :/

Caravans before the nerf were quite good.  Snagged a vano power cell and power armor helmet from a tiny fort.  Killed 2 wargs for an infinite chem reactor and some joywire.  And dealt with something else for 2 res serums (that one was probably a bit too good )  Afterwards I'm getting like... a bionic arm or similar stuff.  Not enough to risk more than a brain damaged suicide soloer on a known threat: none (ambush probably)

Major threats have been pretty dull meanwhile.  First a psychic ship that had a very low roll, just a centipede and a scyther, so I just walked up to them and killed them.  Then a pack of 11 dromedaries that walked into deadfalls and died, with the cannons only needing to kill a handful.  Later on I have a poison ship landing on my cave entrance more than 50 tiles from the hydroponics, so... free, very very conveniently placed guardians   Or starving to death if the 50 tile radius got reverted     Guess I'll find out soon enough.



[attachment deleted due to age]

[mndfreeze]

Boy, researching a tribal run is a real pain now.  It was already rough for tribals before.  Year 1 ended and I've only learned 3 things and still working on electricity.

I'm fine with slower research in general but I think the point requirements for tribal are a little high with all the additional things we have to research now, and the increased length of them all.

[DubskiDude]

So, what can I say about new researches...
Geothermal, sterile materials and autocannon are effectively gated behind microelectronics (since it needs high-tech bench), so current position is misleading.

11000 points for already hard nerfed deep drilling?
Nerf hits early game hard. The stack of slower experience gain and slower research mean that without a pawn with very good initial stats that you can dedicate to research you are very screwed.

Does anyone ever use smokepop belts?
Why is firefoam popper gated behind microelectronics, while firefoam shells and IEDs are not?
With harder geothermal reach river start feels even more enforced.

Agreed. Also I never use smokepop belts.

[Tynan]

Using uranium as a turret ammo was a good change? O_o Now thats one crazy statement if i ever seen one. That turret was already of debatable use, with it missing 3\4 of the time, while costing a crapton to rearm and now it chomps your uranium supply, instead of steel. Kind of funny really.

A proper use of such rare and exotic resource would be adding several high-end glitterworld things to craft and build to make life a bit more convenient and tolerable, not sticking it into a gun barrel.

This is theorizing based on obsolete information and changelist notes. This thread is for discussing play experiences, not changelist theorizing please.

[Jibbles]

Later on I have a poison ship landing on my cave entrance more than 50 tiles from the hydroponics, so... free, very very conveniently placed guardians   Or starving to death if the 50 tile radius got reverted     Guess I'll find out soon enough.

I felt like it went beyond 50 radius in one of my maps.  I don't recall making a base begin so deep in a mountain/cave. I usually start at the edge with a kitchen or something, not much of an entrance. Maybe I get too impatient.  Anyways, thanks for the inspiration. Careful with those deadfall traps. May not want to accidentally aggro the infestations at the wrong time. Just a thought.

[JavaWho]

@tynan .. I just finished the ship research, i do not want to spoil anything but good on you ... I will have to build a bit more in defense before i go .. but  .. I will most likely build the ship more often now.   

[Wintersdark]

I only now noticed it, but oh my god.

I *absolutely* love the new "Do until you have X" restrictions.

I've always struggled to automate tailoring in particular to ensure there's always fresh clothing for my pawns, without accidentally ending up not making anything because I've tons of worn clothes, or stuff made of the wrong materials.

Now, I have jobs set up to ensure there's always 11 (I have 10 pawns) of each item of clothing, counting those that are equipped, that are also made of the correct materials AND over 60% health.  Now my pawns will just wander off and get changed if their clothes are too damaged (50% limit on outfit health), and immediately afterwards a new item will be made of whatever of the allowed materials is available.  Because of the "equipped" limit, this ensures seasonal wear is adequately available too. 

I can't begin to say how tickled pink I am with this.  Not just for clothing, of course, but that's the first use case I had.  These controls definitely make manufacturing a great deal easier.

[Greep]

Later on I have a poison ship landing on my cave entrance more than 50 tiles from the hydroponics, so... free, very very conveniently placed guardians   Or starving to death if the 50 tile radius got reverted     Guess I'll find out soon enough.

I felt like it went beyond 50 radius in one of my maps.  I don't recall making a base begin so deep in a mountain/cave. I usually start at the edge with a kitchen or something, not much of an entrance. Maybe I get too impatient.  Anyways, thanks for the inspiration. Careful with those deadfall traps. May not want to accidentally aggro the infestations at the wrong time. Just a thought.

I actually spent about a year outside, so it's not as soon as you think.  Thinking more on this, that ship would have landed right on top of me if I hadn't moved in, so I'm glad I did lol.

Just thought of an amusing exploit:  The infestation from drilling too deep is small enough that if you really spam traps you can probably fully deal with it that way.  So... mine for stone -> mining for food!  Exploit?  Or cute idea?  You decide.  Sounds like a Don't Starve trick