Unstable build feedback thread

[iamomnivore]

Not sure if i am at the right place for this, but i got raided by sappers , two of them threw grenades on close range, meaning while my pawns attacked on melee, they still threw grenades on them, killing both, shouldn't grenade have a minimal range like weapons ?

Also had this happen, a couple of days ago, and the grenadier even hit himself ...

[NagashUD]

Not sure if i am at the right place for this, but i got raided by sappers , two of them threw grenades on close range, meaning while my pawns attacked on melee, they still threw grenades on them, killing both, shouldn't grenade have a minimal range like weapons ?

Also had this happen, a couple of days ago, and the grenadier even hit himself ...

They both killed themself ... :/ and killed my melee pawns as well ... damn terrorists !!!

[BlueWinds]

That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.

I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.

I'd like to push back against this a little.

I've been playing since A12, and have reloaded every time a pawn dies. It's how I play the game, and removing the ability would really dampen my enthusiasm. (I know you're not saying you'd make permadeath only, but...)

Basically, I enjoy Rimworld as a colony simulator. I usually play with 4-6 pawn colonies, lasting years and growing greatly attached to my few lonely friends in the wilderness. When they enter a relationship, it makes me very happy. When someone gets a disease, I sit on the edge of my seat. It's a story simulator, but it's one that doesn't contain death. The interest is in colony building and crisis management, relationships, wandering the world, etc.

Generally I'll mod in an "easy" raid level and an "extreme" everything else difficulty. I like higher difficulties because of the mood penalties, price reductions and lower crop yields, but am not interested in the combat mechanics beyond a very limited level.

Just wanted to add a perspective. I tend to quickly lose interest in games that ask me to invest emotionally in the characters and then force losses on me. Thanks for an amazing game, I love playing it in this terrible save-scumming way, and I very much look forward to 1.0 reaching a non-Steam audience (me).

[DubskiDude]

That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.

I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.

Tynan, I respect you as a dev, but making permadeath mandatory would be a terrible idea.

[Sirsir]

That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.

I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.

The game is also designed in a way that it throws you into completely unfair scenarios from time to time. This change feels totally pointless, but whatever spins your merry-go-round.

I savescum A LOT. But I won't run from a challenge (usually, sometimes I forget to save when a threat arrives). I like to play them out in different ways. Sometimes I scum even after a flawless victory to see 'ok but what if I did THIS instead' Its not viable to practice late game scenarios, particularly from rare events, when it takes so very long to get there, and one misstep means the whole thing falls over.

And sometimes I savescum cuz a lancer that drops in the middle of my colony obliterates the spine of my well armored, fairly well covered, and vital colonist on the first shot. I know the game is capable of unfair BS, but its ok because so am I

Also sometimes the idiocy of my pawns astounds me. Like when they consistently take the route through the bug cave instead of walking 3 blocks around it. I rewind then to hold their hand because WHY ARE YOU WALKING INTO GIANT BUGS FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME?!

[Greep]

I think he just meant permadeath would be checked by default, so new players would be encouraged to try it.  So, instead of making permadeath players check a box, non-permadeath have to uncheck a box.  Not exactly a monumental change.

In any case, so, looks like either I'm getting insanely lucky or deadfalls are just wrecking centipedes morseso than b18   Injuries on the last few below.  Might actually just be luck, that is a crazy amount of head hits.



[attachment deleted due to age]

[Gfurst]

That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.

I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.

LoL yeah, that's a change people definitely wont screech about.
But anyway people need to calm down, he was probably joking.

[Kubouch]

I'm for making permadeath default and let players enable saving if they want to. BTW, it is possible to save scum even on permadeath - just Alt-F4, relaunch the game and load the last save.

[erdrik]

I enjoy save scumming as well. I agree with the sentiments that it should remain optional.
Im not against hardcore mode and can see how some might enjoy it, but I don't gain joy from watch my pawns die. Im far more interested in the stories they tell while alive.

[Grimelord82]

I save scum in 1.0 because it's under development and I never know what's going to happen. For example, I stopped last night after a 3 hive infestation spawned 3 large, 3 medium and 6 little guys in my 6 tribal pawn base. Even my tough, elephant tusk wielding melee couldn't block that door for long, with 2 scavenged shotguns, a machine pistol, and a meatshield elephant and wolf.

I savescum in B18 and prior because death spirals are easy to start, with every pawn being basically critical below a count of 6.
Don't have a +10 doctor with 90%+ manipulation, clean room, and actual medicine? Pawns WILL die of plague or infections. (I have seen the infections toned down a bit, but 100% bedrest was still mandatory without medicine as of build 1962.)
Don't have a +8 grower, to get that healroot started? See above (current colony struggle)
Encounter a Lancer? Someone is losing a limb or the top of their head, 4 battles out of 5, even though they have good+, 50% armor and cover from sandbags+walls.

I savescum because failure takes 30 seconds, but success takes hours. A tribal I really wanted shows up, and dies 3 times before I can capture her. Her recruit difficulty is 57%, my warden's recruit chance is 42%, and it still takes a week of them talking.

I savescum because I don't want to play the first week with a new colony OVER and OVER and OVER when I mess up. It's interesting for variety and finding new fail states, but I'm a colony manager at heart.

[gadjung]

I think he just meant permadeath would be checked by default, so new players would be encouraged to try it.  So, instead of making permadeath players check a box, non-permadeath have to uncheck a box.  Not exactly a monumental change.

That's exactly what he wrote :

I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.

Other thing : when having stockpile zone selected, clicking 'Expand Zone' and creating new zone (that does not merge with existing, selected one) i was kinda expecting that new zone would have the same settings.

[ashaffee]

The whole thing about save scumming. I actually use it as a learning tool. Since I may understand the mechanics of 90% of the game but how to deal with a psychic ship during a plaque is very tricky(I actually discovered a use for luciferum in that playthrough). Also with the game changing every day with unstable mode it helps to relearn things you previously assumed you knew like the increase to the chased refugee quest. Although I do agree on a stable server there really shouldn't be any other way to play.

I would go a step further in the final build to have permadeath removed as a option tick and instead be placed in the settings menu with a warning attached. Leaving it right in our face makes it always tempting to pick it. Also putting it in the settings will leave it auto enabled for players that can't stand the idea of loss and gain real emotional attachment to their pawns/pets. Some people just prefer a colony that never ends. 

**** From actual game experience below ****

Speaking of the mention of luciferum. That is a drug that I bet if you could pull statistics from the game would see 99% + of all saved games never use this item. Maybe toning down the first use to an extreme hangover that forces them to rest in bed. Second use to hangover + withdrawal mood debuff then third hits the current effect. With each use maybe increasing the potential buff to a cap of the drug. Gives the team of the super drugged out juiced warrior that is eventually doomed story to your game.

As luci stands atm it is kind of a waste of space in the game. Only time I've seen it used is when you know you are up against odds that will cause a pretty injured pawn to be dead anyway so you get that last glorious battle out of them or a modded experience. I've tried dozens of runs on 1.0 thinking of ways I could use it and barely found one from a save scum.

[I Am Testing This Game]

Opinions from more dedicated players may vary, but I will argue that this game is not particularly well suited for casual iron man play.

a) it's incredibly time consuming already, it takes hours to make even moderate progress
b) it's easy to completely wipe out your colony and have to start over if you make one small mistake, or have to figure out a mechanic on the fly. Like, fighting mechanoids can easily turn into a wipe if you build your cover too close to the ship and trigger them early. Or any caravan mission can turn into a wipe if you're not clear on what you're getting into.
c) Some units may be disposable in the mid game, but this is not really true in the early game, losing one out of three to four pawns can be an immense setback, especially if it has a key role.

Saving too much can ruin the fun, sure. But I already end up restarting a lot and playing the early game over and over, it would be much worse with iron man.

[Boboid]

In any case, so, looks like either I'm getting insanely lucky or deadfalls are just wrecking centipedes morseso than b18   Injuries on the last few:

That's because deadfall traps are designed to hit the head and torso. Not sure if it's 100% but there's definitely a massive bias towards head/torso. I had a quick skim through the defs to find code on them but couldn't find anything that gave me any useful numbers.

As far as I know centipede "Heads" only consist of their sight sensors and brains so there's a fairly large chance to disable them with deadfall traps.

Of course most mech encounters lead with Scythers and then Lancers - effectively disabling traps before centipedes get to them so it's not particularly common for centipedes to walk over large blobs of traps.
Since I don't think that deadfall traps have an AP value (But I know they do sharp damage) there's an 80% chance that they'll be affected by armor - so 40% of all deadfall traps will plink harmlessly off them, 40% will be mitigated by 50%, and 20% will do full damage.
In B18 the % based mitigation system meant that while traps were effective (and still mostly hit the head) there was no chance of a lucky hit.

Technically a single steel deadfall trap could dome a centipede and destroy its brain outright as far as I know.

[Zombull]

If people don't like having to remember to turn on permadeath, then put an option in settings to turn it on by default.

Off by default is fine with me as I will never enable it. Just like I will never "permanently disable dev mode".