Unstable build feedback thread

[Syrchalis]

Isn't while you are up baked into the game already?

Yes and no. The general idea is in the game, but it's very non-aggressive, while WYAU is... was extremely aggressively searching for things to haul, since the latest bugfix it is moderately aggressive, but still way more reliable and predictable than vanilla hauling.

[Eterm]

When loading a 1966 save in 1967 all my produced textile items took around 23% damage. I had a barn full of animal nests on 77% and I suddenly didn't have any fulfilled clothing work orders despite previously an inventory full of good devilstrand gear, it was all suddenly damaged.

I know that loading cross-version is warned about being unstable but that seemed like a really *odd* side effect so I thought I would mention it here. (I won't raise a bug unless i reproduce it with a clean playthrough).

[Tass237]

When loading a 1966 save in 1967 all my produced textile items took around 23% damage. I had a barn full of animal nests on 77% and I suddenly didn't have any fulfilled clothing work orders despite previously an inventory full of good devilstrand gear, it was all suddenly damaged.

I know that loading cross-version is warned about being unstable but that seemed like a really *odd* side effect so I thought I would mention it here. (I won't raise a bug unless i reproduce it with a clean playthrough).

If the maximum HP of those items went up in the build change, that would cause it, as the items CURRENT hp didn't go up.

Similarly, if an item's maximum hp goes DOWN in a build change, you can find items with more current hp than their maximum.

[SpaceDorf]

When we are Theorycrafting ... if you put the technologies required in a real world timeline it would be something like this

Meat Curing / Drying / Sausages and all the other preparations not requiering vegetables


Water and Wind Mechanical Power
Natural Ice in specially build storehouses /
Steam Powered Mechanical Power
Electricity / Dynamo Generated Power
Batteries  / Chemically Generated Power
Combustion Engines
Fluid Based Refrigeration / Air Conditioning / Industrial Ice Production
Fluid Based Small Refrigeration Units



suggestions : put refrigeration behind research instead of reliable power generators

Oppinion from playing experience : The Freezer is a must have early on, because there is no other reliable option to store meat based food. Without a Freezer it is Hand-to-Mouth while praying that nothing will destroy your feeble farm and enough huntable animals and forageable are around.
And that your Idiot pawns will carry your foraged food fast enough before it wastes away or gets eaten outside.
Even Pemmican is only reliable after a farm is established.
So the solution might be something completely different than trying to balance how the freezer is the only solution for food storage.

[Eterm]

If the maximum HP of those items went up in the build change, that would cause it, as the items CURRENT hp didn't go up.

Similarly, if an item's maximum hp goes DOWN in a build change, you can find items with more current hp than their maximum.

Thanks, that explains it perfectly, they all appear to have 130 hitpoints now, 100/130 = 77%.

As a bonus here's my debug chart for the playthrough. The adaptation line was tracking the other pretty well but after one particularly nasty raid (actually it was an infestation I think? (Maybe a drop-pod raid?) ), the red line took off and the adaption hasn't kept up.

Edit: Crashlanded Cassandra Medium

[attachment deleted due to age]

[protobeard]

Made it to day 65 on 1964 (some early game stories are in a previous post) but it looks like the new build has an incompatibility which is making prisoner recruitment UI not appear, so I'm gonna start a new colony. I doubt this is a real bug, as starting a new game and dev spawning in a prisoner shows the recruitment UI just fine, so I didn't post anything to the bug forum.

Ramp up graph attached.

A couple more thoughts from having played ~10 colonies on 1.0 now:

Random dislikes:

• The change of the name of the "Character" tab to "Char" for colonist details -- yes, I get that all the tabs are the same size now, but "char" feels ugly (no offense intended, I've made this trade off in UI design myself before). I also think that "Character" is much more obvious for new players than "Char".
• While in general I like the new art, I don't really like the neutroamine graphic. Not sure why, but it seems a little out of place to me
• I don't really like the names "commitment mode" and "reload anytime mode" -- they feel awkward (hence the need to have "mode" in both of them). I think the tooltips on these are good though.

Random likes:

• Having "border friction" with factions seems well done. I wasn't one to settle right next to a faction outpost anyway, but now the penalty really encourages me to get a little further away just to keep alive the possibility of caravan trade.
• The "inspired" icon and inspiration time remaining are really nice to have -- it gives enough info on the pawn icon to keep me from forgetting about inspirations.
• Combining animal and colonist zones is nice. Reduces unncessesary complexity, especially for new players.
• I generally like the new leather types. I'm not sure if I'm just paying more attention now, but it feels good to scan the map and see a megasloth -- good armor! Hunting feels more interactive, and I often hunt for leather now, whereas before I always hunted just for food.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[SpaceDorf]

*LOL*

A desperate Alpaca just self tamed after my Hunter nearly killed it with his first shot.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[robno]

Absolutely none of that is mandatory. I like a good shooter, a good medic and a good social; Everything else is optional, based on how I want to play this particular colony; I try to get a good mix of stuff, but research, even now, is still one of my lowest priorities, and melee has always been, and continues to be, even in the newer paradigm of considerably stronger melee.

Even industrial-age+ colonists crashlanding on an unknown world aren't going to know how to build all of this stuff from the get-go; It's honestly a kindness that we have electrical engineering. I'm a pretty technical dude, with mechanical and electronic experience, and I couldn't build a generator, cooler or heater without a lot of time spent figuring out how. The fact that I have a basic understanding of principles and a solid idea of what's possible puts me head and shoulders above a primitive tribesman, but I'm not going to have the knowledge from the beginning; And chances are good that a random sampling of 2 other people aren't going to, either.

So while I do some research, I go primitive. I hunt only as much meat as I can reasonably eat in a couple days. If I have even a half-ass farmer, I farm. If I've got nothing but shitty farmers, I still farm. Research is more important than it was, but it's still quite doable without it for quite some time. This feels real, this feels right; It's always bugged me how quickly a random bunch of strangers can build a high-tech colony, so moving away from that is a good change.

I agree, research felt too quick previously. The changes place more importance on it, and allow more diversity of playstyle throughout a run

I agree that 'Char' doesn't seem right. I didn't have a problem with the tabs being different sizes. I suppose 'Stats' could work, but it doesn't feel as 'RP-ey' as Character.

There's no point trying to argue about research from a real life perspective - obviously a random person from our society (an industrial civilisation) would know barely any of the techs, not even complex clothing or furniture. Who could turn raw materials like stone and steel into a refrigerator? I think putting these things behind a research barrier is better for gameplay.

The only concern I have is being able to survive a heatwave - this really does necessitate researching a cooling tech which may be impossible without a decent researcher in many biomes.

[Razzoriel]

*LOL*

A desperate Alpaca just self tamed after my Hunter nearly killed it with his first shot.

Name it something French, like Baguette.

[Syrchalis]

*LOL*

A desperate Alpaca just self tamed after my Hunter nearly killed it with his first shot.

That's what I call instant surrender. I would totally patch it up and keep it save for being such a smart animal.

[SpaceDorf]

*LOL*

A desperate Alpaca just self tamed after my Hunter nearly killed it with his first shot.

Name it something French, like Baguette.

To late. I don't have tame Alpacas in my current colony. I have a bunch of wargs, pigs, elefants and a single boomalope.
Every animal that self tames just gets send to a zone near my freezer and is set to be butchered.

That's what I call instant surrender. I would totally patch it up and keep it save for being such a smart animal.

In retrospect I should have done that, it would have made for the better story 

[Boboid]

Looks like high quality Psychic foil helmets are on the list of items that world quests can generate which is a real punch in the crotch.
A legendary Psychic foil helmet is worth roughly the same amount as a bolt-action rifle of the same quality while not really providing any of the bonuses normally associated with high quality items.

To be frank it doesn't make a lot of sense that foil helmets even have quality given that they've got 40 health and have armor values worse than war masks. Being higher quality doesn't make them significantly better at the only thing they're supposed to do - Counteract psychic debuffs. Could easily strip quality off them and nobody would even notice.

It is a bad move because it makes good researcher mandatory at the start as a crashlanded. Yo already need a good shooter (because shooting is a way to go), a half-decent brawler (because now you HAVE to cover your shooter), a good cook (or you'll spend half of the time vomiting and botching any work), a good constructor (or you can't build a lot of thing you really need and botch a ton of materials). If you want a mountain start (and 1.0 is heavily weighted in favor of mountain bases), you also need a capable miner.

Absolutely none of that is mandatory. I like a good shooter, a good medic and a good social; Everything else is optional, based on how I want to play this particular colony; I try to get a good mix of stuff, but research, even now, is still one of my lowest priorities, and melee has always been, and continues to be, even in the newer paradigm of considerably stronger melee.

Even industrial-age+ colonists crashlanding on an unknown world aren't going to know how to build all of this stuff from the get-go; It's honestly a kindness that we have electrical engineering. I'm a pretty technical dude, with mechanical and electronic experience, and I couldn't build a generator, cooler or heater without a lot of time spent figuring out how. The fact that I have a basic understanding of principles and a solid idea of what's possible puts me head and shoulders above a primitive tribesman, but I'm not going to have the knowledge from the beginning; And chances are good that a random sampling of 2 other people aren't going to, either.

So while I do some research, I go primitive. I hunt only as much meat as I can reasonably eat in a couple days. If I have even a half-ass farmer, I farm. If I've got nothing but shitty farmers, I still farm. Research is more important than it was, but it's still quite doable without it for quite some time. This feels real, this feels right; It's always bugged me how quickly a random bunch of strangers can build a high-tech colony, so moving away from that is a good change.

Couldn't agree more. Although I have to say that I'm happy to play with nothing but one mediocre doctor.
You should give melee another whirl though - It's in a really good spot especially post shield belts.

The notion that you need a perfect start is ridiculous and is born of an insane negativity bias.
The same goes for mountain starts. You can choose to play that way but it has its own problems that can cause it to be a massive pain in the ass.

Edit: I mean for pitties sake - The naked brutality scenario exists and it's doable. You can even be stuck with a pawn incapable of violence and it's still doable

Here we go... Had to fight them off with 5 pawns. Had to rebuild a lot of turrets after. Cass medium.

Well  no.. you didn't "have" to fight them off. They're manhunters. Doors exist.

And funnily enough just as I started playing today I got a similar event - Thought I'd share my experience with it. Cass - Rough. Trying to breed 150 capybaras as a victory condition. They're not even trained in obedience.
https://imgur.com/a/nC63HCd
Not super obvious from that shot but that's 12 megasloths.

And here they are dead along with the wounds.
https://imgur.com/a/YaLprYE

Not what I'd call devastating. I even ran out to fight them rather than waiting for them to bludgeon themselves to death on the 90 or so wooden traps outside my doors.
To be honest I could've probably done it with 2 people with revolvers. Megasloths are slow and large. It's like shooting the side of a barn. As it stands I decided to beat them to death to speed up the process.
Squirrels would've been scarier to be honest.

I don't have tame Alpacas in my current colony. I have a bunch of wargs, pigs, elefants and a single boomalope.

Tell me - How are your elephants going? I found in my previous games that they were gigantic wastes of food that didn't do anything useful.
They can't haul large amounts with their carry capacity because virtually everything only stacks to 75 anyway.
They're gigantic so the eat -all- the gunfire.
They eat a truly ridiculous amount of food (And your crops if you're not preventing them from going there which means they can't haul your crops, bleh!)
And they crap all over your floors constantly >.<

Think I'd rather have the tusks to be honest. Or another 2 dogs.

[DariusWolfe]

There's no point trying to argue about research from a real life perspective - obviously a random person from our society (an industrial civilisation) would know barely any of the techs, not even complex clothing or furniture. Who could turn raw materials like stone and steel into a refrigerator? I think putting these things behind a research barrier is better for gameplay.

The only concern I have is being able to survive a heatwave - this really does necessitate researching a cooling tech which may be impossible without a decent researcher in many biomes.

Wanna address the first part real quick: While we shouldn't expect this game to mirror 'realism' exactly, it's still always a thing that should be kept in mind, because games like this are always a little bit about suspension of disbelief. You're going to have to accept some things are true in order to tell a compelling story. But there's also a point where suspension of disbelief gets to be too hard, and it's often the tiniest things; You'll be fine with dragons or FTL travel, but a leather shirt shrugging off shotgun blasts is the thing that's going to get you. So don't dismiss 'realism' arguments entirely. It's short hand for 'feels right/wrong' in context, and what feels right or wrong is very important when you're asking people to suspend disbelief.

Regarding heat waves: Crashlanded now has access to the passive cooler, doesn't it? An arid or desert environment makes them considerably more expensive, but they're still available. In anything but the hottest environments, I've managed to generally just tough heat waves out without one, though; Everyone's miserable, and always on the edge of heat stroke, but they're survivable. Where trees are available though, they're actually really effective, and I've recently become a convert, instead of just trying to barely survive.

I do think that overhead roofs should have a greater effect, but I think Tynan would have to rewrite whole swathes of the code to make that work, and I doubt it's worthwhile.

You should give melee another whirl though - It's in a really good spot especially post shield belts.

I didn't say my reasoning was smart, it's just where I'm at right now.

The naked brutality scenario exists and it's doable. You can even be stuck with a pawn incapable of violence and it's still doable

Read back a few pages, and you'll see I tried something even harder than Naked Brutality, and aside from one early, rather funny, backfire, it's going well enough for me; original pawn (after my first got kidnapped and left me waiting for randoms) was incapable of research, firefighting and cooking; Now it's three pawns, doing relatively well.

[EvadableMoxie]

Regarding research: Intellectual is one of the things I don't really value highly on starting pawns.  The reason being is that it's not hard to get a research pawn. Since they'll be spending all their work time researching it doesn't matter if research is literally the only thing they can do. I don't care if they can't dumb labor, I don't care if they literally have no other passions besides researching, I don't care if they're a slowpoke. The bar for a research pawn is extremely low, so I'm very likely to find someone suitable.

So why waste one of the three pawns I get to reroll over and over on trying to get a good stat in something I can take some staggeringly ugly abrasive pawn with 2 peg legs that won't dumb labor and lock them in a bedroom with a research bench and be fine? Even when I have pawns that have good intellectual to start they rarely end up researching for long because starting pawns tend to be good at a lot of things so I usually need them to do those things instead. As soon as an intellect capable pawn shows up, odds are they won't be as good as a starting pawn meaning I'm moving my starter off research and using the new pawn, who likely isn't good at much yet.

I think the changes are great, personally. You actually have to really think about what you need to research next instead of just always going micro-electronics into machining every single game and going "Eh whatever" for the rest of the game.

[Oblitus]

Wanna address the first part real quick: While we shouldn't expect this game to mirror 'realism' exactly, it's still always a thing that should be kept in mind, because games like this are always a little bit about suspension of disbelief.

Suspension works pretty good in games that are about gameplay, where lore, setting, and other stuff are just a fluff around gameplay, Rimworld is positioned as a story generator. And for story generator believability of the story is absolutely critical. Unnatural, cheesy design choices just scream about how fake the story is. It just doesn't add up.