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Author Topic: Unstable build feedback thread  (Read 376998 times)

Ser Kitteh

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3435 on: July 22, 2018, 05:44:24 AM »

Bug (probably): You can't haul healthy prisoners to cryptocaskets. They need to be hurt first. Which is a really strange condition to have despite the fact colonists don't need to be like that.
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Tynan

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3436 on: July 22, 2018, 05:52:18 AM »

Raid power scales infinitely.

At year 4 on normal I have 1:20 ratio with pirate raids. Twenty pirates against each one of my colonists, including non-violent and inept in combat

On base builder I'll get 15, and 20 would be year later.

medium and lower difficulties keep relentlessly adding more and more raiders just like other difficulties

Thanks for the pass-along. This is something I'm thinking about while making adjustments.

The thing is, unless there's a bug or something, or he's modding, none of these statements is actually true.

I'd really love to hear specific instances of something like these, especially if savegames can be provided.

But as it's designed/implemented right now:
-Raid strength curves off at high levels, it will never scale infinitely
-Separately from that, raid contribution from wealth curves off at high levels, reducing to 1/4 around 1 million wealth
-Lower difficulties adapt up slower, so a lower rate of damage taken will cancel the adaptation totally. Unless you never have a colonist downed ever, raids absolutely will not scale up infinitely, and they'll take years of game time to even hit 2x even if you never have a colonist downed.
-You can build and sustain very powerful turret defenses. They're not all in one killbox, but if you've got some lanes through your base you can cover them with turrets too.

Of course none of that nullifies the perception of what you're talking about. Some of that perception is likely just out of date from earlier builds of 1.0. I'd be very interested in up-to-date and specific, reproducible instances of what you're talking about. A savegame exhibiting these situations would be wonderful.
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Teleblaster18

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3437 on: July 22, 2018, 05:55:19 AM »

Debug History Graphs:

New game, started tonight.
Naked Brutality
Cassandra/Rough/Temperate Forest - ~37 days
Version 1971



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Greep

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3438 on: July 22, 2018, 05:55:24 AM »

I think it's mostly the type of people who produce wealthy colonies with lots of good rooms and food supplies.  Most players on this forum are savvy enough to invest more in some form of security than in luxurious colony settings.

The 1:20 raider comment is obviously hyperbole, unless he miswrote that and meant just 20.  I'll see if I can wheedle a save game out of him :)

Regarding killboxes:  Some people can adapt to 1.0 drop pods/sappers, some can't.  My killbox on a flat map even is going quite strong and has given 0 deaths so far, will post an update :D  Tons and tons of body parts lost, though.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:02:44 AM by Greep »
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1.0 Mods: Raid size limiter:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42721.0

MineTortoise:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42792.0
HELLO!

(WIPish)Strategy Mode: The experienced player's "vanilla"
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43044.0

Madman666

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3439 on: July 22, 2018, 05:58:27 AM »

-Debuff devilstrand so it's in line with good leathers.

Imo devilstrand should be better than leathers. And significantly better. It takes a lot of time to grow it, while all you need to get leathers is a combat worthy colonist, an LMG and a megasloth. Combine those - bam, leathers. No research, no sowing, no maintaining temperature on harsh biomes. Just a bit of violence.

It might sound presumptious, but opinion of one guy probably playing year-round grow season saying its too OP, because he can sow a crapton and then get full devilstrand wearing colony shouldn't be a reason valid enough for a nerf to it. You won't be able to consistently grow tons of devilstrand on harsher biomes and even on a temp forest with only 30 growing days its not that easy, unless you invested into having several greenhouses, which eat a lot of power and need heating to function through winter.

Please consider buffing devilstrand back.
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East

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3440 on: July 22, 2018, 05:59:16 AM »

Ugh... leighton the wonder dog... is there any way that changing zones for animals could trigger them to update their movement sooner?  I tell him to go into hiding before every raid but usually it's way too late. He'll be just a stump before long.

B18, set master-> change zone-> master draft.
1.0, set master-> change zone-> check follow when draft-> master draft-> wait 1sec-> uncheck follow when draft. -> master redraft

I am always telling me to return it to b18 again.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:00:59 AM by East »
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Tynan

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3441 on: July 22, 2018, 06:06:14 AM »

What's the usage case here? You guys are using animal areas to micromanage animals? Sort of like ordering them around in combat?
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Greep

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3442 on: July 22, 2018, 06:08:06 AM »

Not quite.  I'll get a raid warning and some raiders come from the edge of the map.  I'll zone them to go hide in their rooms.  You'd expect they would eventually get there in time but more often than not the raiders will actually get to them first before they even decide to move back to base.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:09:40 AM by Greep »
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1.0 Mods: Raid size limiter:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42721.0

MineTortoise:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42792.0
HELLO!

(WIPish)Strategy Mode: The experienced player's "vanilla"
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43044.0

Madman666

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3443 on: July 22, 2018, 06:10:16 AM »

I ve seen some guy on youtube use restriction zones for animals as waypoints to set wolf\warg ambushes for enemy shooters, hiding animals  in small rooms. It was rather effective, all he needed to do then is hit "Release" command and enemies were pretty much instantly forced into uneven melee.
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East

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3444 on: July 22, 2018, 06:13:23 AM »

What's the usage case here? You guys are using animal areas to micromanage animals? Sort of like ordering them around in combat?

https://i.imgur.com/wVRK83D.png

It is used to save this dog.

Where animals are expected to be attacked, animals should be sent immediately to safe areas.
Currently, animals do not respond to zone changes for very long periods of time.


And I use animal areas very much. Especially excluding drug room.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:39:19 AM by East »
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Syrchalis

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3445 on: July 22, 2018, 06:16:59 AM »

What's the usage case here? You guys are using animal areas to micromanage animals? Sort of like ordering them around in combat?
I always have 3 areas for animals:
1. Grazers - basically keeping grazing animals from wandering off too far and nothing else, it's a large zone and I constantly need to remove parts when I build up my base, annoying but useful
2. Safe Zone - a zone to send animals to during raids so they don't randomly die, because for whatever reason harmless farm animals are mercilessly slaughtered not just by mechs but every attacker
3. Hauler Zone - usually I mark a few areas I don't want them to go (maybe fields if I have herbivores, freezer etc.) and then invert the area. Basically it's the whole map aside from a few key areas I don't want them to go to eat stuff I don't want them to.
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Lanilor

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3446 on: July 22, 2018, 06:17:11 AM »

I've had multiple times where someone dies from an infection too early, and finally noticed that it somehow revolves around loading a saved game. For example, let's say that Bob survives some infection at 100% immunity and 85% infection. As long as the infection/survival played out fully, he lives. But load a save when Bob has anything... like 75% immunity and 50% infection, or 95/80, etc etc. Each time, within about 10 seconds, he dies from infection. It's like an alternate time-line, in a way. I've confirmed this multiple pawns, games, and dev builds within the last week. Here's a screenshot from the most recent victim. In this case, I don't know which he died from, but the Left Arm infection was at 90% immunity, 73% infected. If there's a useful way to be more specific with these findings, like I'm missing some vital situational info, let me know.

I know that pain kills people. Would you like to try it once with an yayo or go-juice? You can feed through surgery.

Pain does not kill people and the linked screenshot shows the real reason: The body parts efficiency hit 0% and since it is a vital body part it means the pawn dies. Infections on the highest extreme stage reduce body part efficiency by 70% so in combination with more injuries on that part it is easy to get to 0%.
If you have an infection on a high damages vital body part, you need to take care of this and use better medicine where available or replace it or use luci / healer serum / cryptosleef if everything fails and you want to keep the pawn.

@Tynan: I think this problem is quite common and I explain that to a lot to people. Maybe add this as a reason to the death message, like "[Pawn] died of an infection. Reason: Vital body part malfunctioning." (or a better description of cause)
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Nitrovore

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3447 on: July 22, 2018, 06:17:38 AM »

Raid power scales infinitely.

At year 4 on normal I have 1:20 ratio with pirate raids. Twenty pirates against each one of my colonists, including non-violent and inept in combat

On base builder I'll get 15, and 20 would be year later.

medium and lower difficulties keep relentlessly adding more and more raiders just like other difficulties

Thanks for the pass-along. This is something I'm thinking about while making adjustments.

The thing is, unless there's a bug or something, or he's modding, none of these statements is actually true.



Yeah, I gotta go with Tynan on this, I've played further than year 4 on higher difficulties than "normal" (I presume he means medium), and I've never been outnumbered more than 1.5 to 1 in recent builds, maybe 2 to 1 in earlier ones. That's either a case of a broken mod, a bug, somebody making every damn thing in their base out of solid gold or something (not even sure if that would be enough), or somebody's been telling porkies :P
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Greep

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3448 on: July 22, 2018, 06:21:20 AM »

I think it was just an exaggeration.  I've asked him to come post here in any case.  Either way, exaggeration or no, if he's experiencing what he feels are overwhelming raids that ultimately whittle him down to nothing on just medium by the time he has made it all the way to year 4, I feel like this is something that would need looking into.
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1.0 Mods: Raid size limiter:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42721.0

MineTortoise:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42792.0
HELLO!

(WIPish)Strategy Mode: The experienced player's "vanilla"
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43044.0

Teleblaster18

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Re: Unstable build of 1.0 available
« Reply #3449 on: July 22, 2018, 06:21:45 AM »

Bug (probably): You can't haul healthy prisoners to cryptocaskets. They need to be hurt first. Which is a really strange condition to have despite the fact colonists don't need to be like that.
In B18, prisoners and animals would need to be anesthetized first; the option to carry to cryptosleep would then appear.  I haven't yet used cryptosleep pods in 1.0, but see if that works for you.
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