Unstable build feedback thread

[fecalfrown]

New game, played on Large Hills rather than mountains, temperate forest, to see if traps were still an option when you can't just close off one entrance.

Mostly it can still work, but I have found that I'm back to using stone rather than steel a lot of the time because of the cost. You still can't guarantee to one-shot an enemy with a trap, so you could be spending 120 steel to take down one pawn.

Could I suggest that maybe a mid point could be for traps to only have a fixed number of uses before needing to be reloaded, like the turret barrel thing?

EG, traps cost 50 stuff, you get 4 triggers, then you have to spend 30 to repair the busted mechanism?

Agree with the solution suggested above. I'm playing on randy extreme naked brutality tribal start on temperate forest small hills. On this current game, year 3, I haven't made it to the 'killbox style' base and I'm not sure how they interact with turrets, (no electricity yet) but I do use a significant number of traps at natural choke points to soften the enemy before they reach my base. (Or at choke points in my base if they get in). The 'resource cost' feels odious, especially in the randy world of back-to-back raids. If I don't have extra steel or stone lying around, I can't quickly recover and prioritize my haulers to reset traps. I need a miner, or a crafter, or a wood chopper, AND a constructor to replenish an effective raid defense.

On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.

He doesn't. He's random. So he also doesn't care if you have too many!

[alxddd]

On a completely different topic, cocoa is... kind of underwhelming? The idea is cute, especially the "self-sweetening" that makes it drop off the tree as a fully formed chocolate bar.  But you spend 1000 research points, hours and hours of tree planting (even after the reduction to tree planting time it's still a big investment), months of waiting and hoping the tree doesn't get destroyed by toxic fallout or an unlucky lightning strike, and then you get... 16 chocolate worth $3 each and the tree disappears. Yuck. Why bother? Chocolate is neither profitable enough nor valuable enough as a joy item to justify the hassle.

Yikes, I never got into crafting chocolate, but after all that the tree also goes away?? Wow, talk about underwhelming.

The tree should absolutely not disappear after all of that time and work. I thought it was underwhelming even if the tree stayed to reproduce every so often.

[alxddd]

Combat:
- I love that Melee is not only viable but necessary now. However, it still doesn't feel balanced (not sure if that's the right word, but didn't want to say "It just doesn't feel right.") For example, I've had multiple armed Melee fighters go down by the hands (literally) of an enemy - not sure if that's based on skill or weapon quality but it happens frequently enough to make me feel like something's off. Then flip it around and it seems like ranged weapon colonists are almost completely defenceless when in melee range, which can be catastrophic in a fight or when hunting alone. It tempts me to go back to recruiting the whole colony to go shoot a bunch of animals at once instead of properly using the hunting as it's meant to be used. I'm sure you don't want to incorporate the sidearm mod into the game or else you would've done it by now, but I feel more tempted than ever to try it out. Alternatively maybe you could make the butt end of ranged weapons a somewhat viable melee option? at least enough to defend unless your longswordsmand gets to the scene?

Has it been discussed before why someone with a ranged weapon can't have a knife in their belt as well?

not that I know of, but I know sidearms is a well known mod so I assume that if they were going to add the feature in they would've done it in this build.

[alxddd]

Also just wanted to add that I thought the Tree and Wood balance was really good in the Arid Shrubland. It was a challenge and forced me to prioritize stonecutting early, but not so bad that I felt unfairly hampered in the early game.

[fecalfrown]

On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.

He doesn't. He's random. So he also doesn't care if you have too many!

I think this is untrue though: My point is that even with Randy as the story teller, the new 'adaptation system' (look at the graph in the debug menu) nudges you to get more than one colonist.

[Dashthechinchilla]

On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.

He doesn't. He's random. So he also doesn't care if you have too many!

True. I can remember pre 1.0 randy plays where I was trying to load 20 colonists on my ship and getting chased refugee. Lol

[Eterm]

On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.

He doesn't. He's random. So he also doesn't care if you have too many!

edit2: Damn, deleted my post when it was right after all..

(I hope Tynan doesn't mind us sharing def/ilspy generated code snippets? I'm happy to delete the post if it's not considered the done thing around here)

Let's break this down, we have a definition of wandererJoin:

Code Select Expand


<IncidentDef>
<defName>WandererJoin</defName>
<label>wanderer join</label>
<category>Misc</category>
    <targetTags>
      <li>Map_PlayerHome</li>
    </targetTags>
<workerClass>IncidentWorker_WandererJoin</workerClass>
<baseChance>0.4</baseChance>
<populationEffect>IncreaseEasy</populationEffect>
</IncidentDef>



Let's go through the chacne code:

Code Select Expand


protected float IncidentChanceFinal(IncidentDef def)
{
float num = def.Worker.AdjustedChance;
num *= this.IncidentChanceFactor_CurrentPopulation(def);
num *= this.IncidentChanceFactor_PopulationIntent(def);
return Mathf.Max(0f, num);
}


The "AdjustedChance" is actually just the def baseChance in the case of WandererJoins. (The "incidentWorker" can adjust it, but the IncidentWorker_WandererJoin does not.

The IncidentChanceFactor_CurrentPopulation does the following:

Code Select Expand


// RimWorld.StorytellerComp
protected float IncidentChanceFactor_CurrentPopulation(IncidentDef def)
{
float result;
if (def.chanceFactorByPopulationCurve == null)
{
result = 1f;
}
else
{
int num = PawnsFinder.AllMapsCaravansAndTravelingTransportPods_Alive_Colonists.Count<Pawn>();
result = def.chanceFactorByPopulationCurve.Evaluate((float)num);
}
return result;
}


In this case, "chanceFactorByPopulationCurve" is not in our def, so this is just 1. I think this may be a curve which is used when determining negative rather than positive events.

More interestingly, we then multiply by "IncidentChanceFactor_PopulationIntent" and this is where Randy comes into play.

Code Select Expand


float result;
if (def.populationEffect == IncidentPopulationEffect.None)
{
result = 1f;
}
else
{
float num;
switch (def.populationEffect)
{
case IncidentPopulationEffect.IncreaseHard:
num = 0.4f;
break;
case IncidentPopulationEffect.IncreaseMedium:
num = 0f;
break;
case IncidentPopulationEffect.IncreaseEasy:
num = -0.4f;
break;
default:
throw new Exception();
}
float a = StorytellerUtilityPopulation.PopulationIntent + num;
result = Mathf.Max(a, this.props.minIncChancePopulationIntentFactor);
}
return result;

We have "IncidentPopulationEffect.IncreaseEasy" in our def, so we start with -0.4, however we then add our "PopuationIntent" from our storyteller. This is actually based on a calculation which starts with a standard population curve which is the same for all story tellers. This starts out very high if you have no players, but falls off slowly after that.

It's then multiplied by a population adaptation number, however I believe there is a "grace period" where population adaptaion doesn't apply, so early on that won't have an impact.

It's important to note that Randy shares that base.

What is returned from this number then combined with a minIncChancePopulationIntentFactor and the higher number taken.

For Cass and Phoebe, this minimum chance is 0.05.

For Randy, this minimum chance is 0.2.

So long term Randy is going to have a constant stream after new colonists for Cass and Phoebe have dried up.

Short term however, all story-tellers will get you to 3-4 population, with only 1 person you are all but guarenteed to get a person in the first day or two, and with randy having no 'off switch' to his functioning you can find yourself quickly homing a lot of new pawns.

[Zombull]

So now releasing prisoners has less effect on good will.

So to be clear, Tynan, you do not want us to be able to achieve peace with an enemy by releasing their members we capture?

Because of the infrequency of raids for a given faction and the high rate of death on downed, we were already getting too few prisoners to release to offset the seasonal goodwill decay. Now it's even worse.

I'm not sure what the point is.

[AFGHANPSYCHO]

Could you please give us an estimate of when maybe 1.0 will be released. I've tried to play the game with the constant updates, but I end up spending 1-2 hours everyday before playing updating mods, figuring out what mods are broken, what mods are breaking the game, etc. I get to play for an hour, sometimes 3 if I have the time, then have to do it all over again the next day. Would rather just wait at this point.

[XelNigma]

While small things are being changed, can shelves have nothing set by default?  Also maybe add 1x1 shelves as well?
And let dressers store stuff, like clothing. Crazy idea i know.

[Toast]

Just rolled up some crashlanders and noticed that pawns who have Animal Handling Disabled in their backstory are still getting awarded Animals skill & passion.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618220842639990/63097CFA5F86B36860A72CD713AACE872B3C0622/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618220842634860/7666930E2EB0738D15BDBE9B787DD2C15A7DCF87/

[Broken Reality]

Could you please give us an estimate of when maybe 1.0 will be released. I've tried to play the game with the constant updates, but I end up spending 1-2 hours everyday before playing updating mods, figuring out what mods are broken, what mods are breaking the game, etc. I get to play for an hour, sometimes 3 if I have the time, then have to do it all over again the next day. Would rather just wait at this point.

Here's a thought how about either not using mods or go and play B18 which isn't getting changed daily or tell Rimworld not to patch in Steam. You opted in to test the 1.0 unstable you aren't forced to play it.

[EvadableMoxie]

I think adding resource costs to traps and turrets so they don't just take care of all the raids for you with minimal input was probably a good thing in the long run. I've still been using both in my playthroughs, and they do work, it's just harder to maintain.  The problem is that defending your base with pawns doesn't work.  Armor isn't reliable and body parts are lost too quickly to keep up.  It's just suicidal.  So it doesn't matter how much traps and turrets get nerfed, because turrets and traps still work and fighting with your pawns does not.

I don't know exactly what the solution is, it may be a mix of things.  Overhauling armor to be more consistent, making body part loss less common, making it easier to restore body parts, maybe all of the above.  As it currently stands though putting your pawns in a shootout before you have power armor and biotics is just almost always the wrong choice.  Unless it's the only choice, which usually signals that you've lost.

I really would prefer to be able to defend using mostly pawns, but I've never gotten that to work on extreme.

[cactusmeat]

Just wanted to share my colony at day 193.
Crashlanded. Cassandra rough, 40/60 harvest, temp forest.

I don't think it's right that I got a mech raid, then 1 hour later I got a siege. Save that stuff for randy extreme.

9 ranged scythers from 2 groups attacked my west wall. Colonists killed the closer group of 4 and then left through the east gate to attack the siege group. The remaining scythers killed 5 miniturrets and slowly made their way to the north of the wall where 2 sniper turrets ended them. I like sniper turrets. If not for a meteorite of uranium I would not have them, as not a single trader so far held any uranium. This took the scythers quite a long time. Perhaps they act too cautiously, they stayed as far back as possible... Maybe raids and mechs could use different all out strategies. Mechs never retreat so why would they act cautiously?

Like most sieges you can catch them off guard somehow when they are setting up or moving and they accept the weather condition of "raining bullets". I personally feel that should not happen at all. This did not happen here. they landed right on top of a poison ship part that I don't care about killing, and set up 2 mortars and sandbags while I was defending the west wall. by the time i got over to them they had fired an incendiary into my devilstrand field. I've had the research for 2 years. 0 harvested. The angry crows as they called themselves didn't outgun or outnumber us.  13 colonists with snipers and bolt action rifles clumped together in an open field attempting to hit the ship part behind them to gain an edge. The angry crows are amazing bullet magnets. After 3 of them went down they abandoned the siege to attack us. 13 wild boars were released and the raiders were dealt with. I sent the crew to the hospital and they had been drafted for so long 2 of them had mental breaks. Luckily those 2 weren't bleeding. I sent the non injured non doctor colonists to finish off the other 4 lancers that were still at the west wall. Naturally by the time they got there the sniper turrets had done it for me.

have some graphs.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18I2RU8EKofFn_rP4uLpkUoyZAWLL-SP2