Unstable build feedback thread

[5thHorseman]

Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Medium
Biome: Temperate Forest (Year-round growing, small hills, road)
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: maybe 12 hours?
Complete mod list: Hugslib, Autoseller, While You're Up, RandomPlus(not used for this run), Simple Stockpile Presets, Numbers, Hand Me That Brick Lite, No Forced Slowdown, Deep Ore Identifier.

Okay so most people didn't like Kaelun (though she was literally my favorite. She was the head medic, negotiator, researcher and was a great shot to boot) but should it really be possible for someone with 4 melee to be able to literally PUNCH HER HEAD OFF WHILE SHE'S WEARING A MARINE HELMET?

[attachment deleted due to age]

[Greep]

Still getting insta berserks on prisoners at moderate expecatations.  If it's intended that you need an artist for prisoners at by moderate expectations, that's cool (you should have on by now), but it feels weird that prisoners basically demand high end art and I thought I'd bring it up.  Berserk and about to berserk here.


[attachment deleted due to age]

[bbqftw]

Catharsis is better than no expectations !!

[zizard]

My colony is transiting the 100-150k wealth range, and I noticed that the expectations curve seems off here:

extremely low (30) 0k
very low (24) 10k
low (18) 25k
moderate (12) 100k
high (6) 150k
sky high (0) 300k

Difference from low to moderate is 75k, but moderate to high only 50k. Doesn't make sense for the intervals to decrease at any step. The result I found is that at 95k, people were pretty happy, but at 155k, they turn into unhappy little infants despite not that much wealth gain. Suggest high moved to 175-200k.

[Greep]

Yeah it would be nice if we could have some prison guards, and maybe divide the trouble makers into hi-low security prisons and assign prison schedules and.. okay I'll stop now 

Edit:  Here's one big reason why the trap change is a point against deadfalls.  Here's a raid of about 20 scythers.  Normally I'd just have a corridor of 80 deadfalls and this would be a non-issue but it's too expensive to have a corridor of deadfalls these days.  The IED corridor I have for raiders was just bulldozed over as they don't really hurt mechs.  I have been able to build traps in front of the cannons as a last minute deterrent, since these deadfalls are ignored in most raids and are literally just for scythers so I don't have to lose 2000 steel every raid, although they only took out a few scythers.  If I hadn't seriously ramped up my charge lance production this would have been a really doozy.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[RemingtonRyder]

Great report Mirador, thanks a ton for writing it!

Nice to hear a story of medium difficulty, I think a lot of people will play this but sometimes it seems like the forum people only like merciless mode.

I play medium difficulty. Although I usually like to throw in a little something to spice it up via the scenario editor.

I'll write you a proper report in a bit.

[Tynan]

Thanks for the notes everyone!

@Greep it sounds like the traps are working well, truthfully.

-Very useful in some situations but not a permanent AFK solution to all problems
-Considered differently against different enemies
-Different traps optimal against different enemies and must be placed in different patterns
-Useful as a complement to other tools, not a total replacement

[Greep]

Maybe!  They are less effective is all I'm saying.  I think I actually might like it better this way having gotten this far, although I can tell a lot of people aren't going to like it xD

[Injured Muffalo]

Re: Pawns dropping items in doorways when drafted or redirected.

Please, can we just forbid dropping items in doors, before 1.0 official? As in, they always fall outside of a door. This is so frustrating and easy to miss and then all of your food is rotten or every prisoner is running away ...

Preach, brother!

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42094.msg414211#msg414211

[Zombull]

I wouldn't say traps are less effective. They're just less brainless. (Is that "more brainful"?)

They used to be "set it and forget it"

Now you have to at least make sure there's a supply chain of materials in place to rebuild them and you have to make sure the rebuild is properly prioritized after an event.

I used to ignore single mad animal events. Now I send pawns outside to shoot it rather than waste resources letting it hit a trap.

I just wish the auto-rebuild of traps would use crated (uninstalled) traps so we could restore them a bit more quickly in the event of back to back raids.

[podium86]

I think it might be a good idea for colonists that go caravaning or out of the map to have a memory of their previous beds and sleeping positions.

Not only is it perfectly logical, it also saves the trouble of having to deal with mood issues such as

1) couples not sleeping together
2) ascetic sleeping in random impressive rooms
3) greedy and jealous people picking the wrong rooms

[Aerial]

Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4 hrs
Complete mod list: Hugslib

Just finished a raid that resulted in 2 injured pawns, 3 captured and injured raiders and 2 injured battle boars. 

My two doctors went directly to the wounded, tended them in the order of greatest need (including a boar who would have died if they'd treated all the humans first), and did not try to eat, sleep or play horseshoes once during that time even though the battle started around midnight and lasted until morning.  It was amazing!

ETA: And now the two injured boars are being fed kibble and raw meat rather than meals!

[mndfreeze]

Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4 hrs
Complete mod list: Hugslib

Just finished a raid that resulted in 2 injured pawns, 3 captured and injured raiders and 2 injured battle boars. 

My two doctors went directly to the wounded, tended them in the order of greatest need (including a boar who would have died if they'd treated all the humans first), and did not try to eat, sleep or play horseshoes once during that time even though the battle started around midnight and lasted until morning.  It was amazing!

ETA: And now the two injured boars are being fed kibble and raw meat rather than meals!

Any chance you can loan me those doctors?  Mine never seem to do that hahaha.  They love to just treat one random animal then try to go to bed bleeding to death. ;/

[PleaseBro]

ok this is a big one for me.

We need to be able to FORBID tribal tech coolers, to stop people from refilling them, probably the same with troches and campfires too.

Thank you.

[Karmai]

single rich colonist (no pet, gold or silver), extra wood,  but disabled incident: infestation

Storyteller:   Phoebe Chillax
Difficulty:   Medium
seed:       poker / 30% /normal/ normal
factions:   outlander and tribe neutral
      outlander 2, savage tribe and pirates hostile
Biom:      Mountainous tundra with river (sandstone + granite)
      62,66°N, 9,73°E
      10/60 days growing period
      275x275
      auto

Version: current dev build (29/07/2018 0:20am GMT+1 - the 30,8mb one)
Playtime: 2h-4h (didnt watch it, sorry, mostly played max speed though)
      
summer (game started 2nd or 3rd summer day, so 13th summer is 11 days in)
day 1:   building a small shelter
   haul everything in
   build wind turbine
   realise i need batery research, started
   planting 4x4 corn
   
day 2:   visitors (offer of packed meals, componets, medicine & psychite tee)
   weird: visitors wont take glitter medicine as gift (no interest)
   
day 3:   mad snow hare
day 4:   build freezer, brzzzt
day 5:   getting some berries (60) from bushes
   first raid: single melee teenager from SE
   goes in a line west to attack hive (instead of north to me)
   checkin on hive: it is destoryed, polar beer and wolf seems to did a number for dying themselfs
   megaspiders goes wandering on the whole map (scary)
   snagging 75 insect jelly
   going for a berry harvest spree   
day6:   battery research done   
day7:   mining steel
day8:   blight, build trap corridor.
   doubt it's effectivnes with the new spacing, lets see      
day9:   dry thunderstorm
   visitors (no trade)
   started solar pannel research
day10:   2nd dry thunderstorm
   realize the giantspider died of malnutrition
day11:   incapcaitated refugee event (1 day to travel one way, 7days time, -10°C, my pawn survives only 6, undoable)
   building trap corridor
   research

day15:   hunting a megasloth, went manhunter, trigger 3 traps to die (105 wood for a megasloth, so expensive)
day18:   caibu self tamed   
day19:   mad elk. 3 traps to kill ...
   gatherer passing by
day20:   raid  1 melee, 2 traps to kill
   item stash quest, 1 day, no defender, still to cold to do it (no cloths)
day21:   force join colonist (why?) - frail, bit scar on leg, kind & to smart,
day23:   the new colonist died and was butchered
   eclipse
   offer help to someone chased (sickly, no hauler, overall bad stats)
   1 to "get him back", he lost his cloths and was left to "getting cought"
   elk self tamed
day24:   first snow, eclipse ends
   rare thrumbos
day25:   zzt
   elk self tame
day28:   incapitaded one (-30°C no way)a
   time for a tailor bench, building parka and a hat
day30:   solar flare
day31:   hard snow
   colonist asked for help (is go juice addcited, i take the cloth, let the 1 pirat retake him)
   unfortunatly the colonist won, so he needs to die the cold death at -36°C
day32:   cargo pods 218 corn
   pychic soothing (female, only colonist is male)
day33:    visitors
   escape pod (useable for food)
   mad muffolo (all 3 events in quick succession, all 3 arrive at my base at the same time)
day35:   enemy escape pod
day36:   raid, 1 melee, funny: -31°C, his cold insulation: -1°C, shots+1trap
day39:   cargo pods (180 rice)
day40:   move to rescue incapitaded refugee (at -39°C no way i go, my pawn can survive it, but the one i rescue? no way)
   (that would need heater,a full battery, build mats, medizin and at least a parka on top of food, all carried by 1 colonist)
day41:   stash defended by 5 manhunter squirals (3days away, urianium masterwork spear and excellent shotgun ... nope)
day46:   electrice stove breakdown
   zzzTT
   late night: shaman merchants

day47:   microelectronics done, tree sowing started
   traders (wolves, food)
day48:  raid: 1 melee (shots+1trap)
day50:   wanderer joins (forced - will die in the cold by choice, taking his cloths)
   tree research done, pemmican next
day52:   combat supplyer
   pemmician research done, hydroponics next
day53:   defended stash of 1775 silver
day54:   8 day fo frenzy (for a researcher in winter)
day55:   solar flare (6h total)
   planting trees (pine)
   muffallos wonder on the map and into trap cooridor, triggering half the traps
   (traps are currently inreplaceable), decide to kill the muffalos
   3 traps left to defend the base
day58:   rescue request with danger, nope (even though that would be the first doable one sincei ts summer again)
   shaman merchant
   cargo pods (33 simple meals)
   cargo pods (202 silver)
day61:   1 melee raider


Weirdness

need battery reference, but it needs research first
- why is the message there?
- why do i get as rich explorerer turrets, but no batteries?
- animals seems to love hive and eat hive products - hive doesnt defend itself
  bears eat the drones/skelopede -> hive dies -> megaspider starts wandering
- 1 use traps for 35 wood is in not even closly viable in it's current form with no abudand wood
  (maybe make it "break" when triggered and need to repair with 5 wood instead)
  the new spacing makes 1 one whith corridor kind of mandatory

-   a person that gets slight malnutrition that is mainly reasearching will not/very slowly loose that trait (researching and sleeping seems a higher prio then eating) even if more then enough food is available and close by
   seems 13% food left the pawn prios research over food, leading to malnutrition since research isn't stopped for a longer time
   (cannibal with untreaded human meat and only raw food not forbidden)
   after testing further it seems he forgets to eat till starvation is reached
   (only happend after playing on fast for 30 days straight, except for raids)
solved:   found the problem: my freezer was the prisoner block, so they never took food from there, even if it was the only source

Comments on the play through:

- it still takes 1-3 traps per enemy (like befor the damage change), making it a 105 <something> solution per enemy.
  it feels like it's very expensive for what it does. It takes 1 1/2 pine tree for one trap. i can sow 2-4 pine trees a day per pawn.
  It then needs go grow 20 days (so about 3 years in my biom).
  So i think balancing the traps for a biom with much wood seems like a bad idea as it makes harder biomes even more punishing, with little to no impact to wood-rich places.
  The first year were about 25 traps (875 wood). For a single colonist.
  They were needed to garantee safety for the first year - to get that lumber.
  I would need to growth ~33 pines per year for the wood for these traps, so around 100 pines total.
  That is excessive (and with higher frequency of raids and more people it just goes to even more insane levels)
  For maps that are allready wood starved ... and wood not be able to grow in planters ...
  Feels like it needs more balancing really.
  The new forced spacing seems fine to me though (only an issue in 2 square wide death corridors)

- medium difficulty on chillax is like it should be i guess, but the amount of traveling for colonists you know nothing about is pretty terryfying.
  Also the placement of them is questionable (-30°C and most likly not enough cloth to freeze to death). on top of the need to "warm them up".
  While also risking your pawn doesnt seems worthwhile the risk

- raiders coming to freeze while attacking is hillarious. From an RP standpoint: how did they reach me in winter with their cloth?
  seems like the cloth spawn on pawns needs to be improved so it's more "believable" that they could walk there.

- The first year only head melee weapons (clubs -steel & stone), the first raid after a year is a steel knife.

- a colony below 3 pawns should get spawned better value pawns (with bonus value in their skills opposed to their gear).
  Higher difficulties could get that bonus reduced/deactivated or the value of pawns could get more valued to determine raiders (maybe more likly pirates then tribals f.e.)




errors:

marking plants to harvest that die, when the pawn wants to cuth them:
RimWorld 1.0.1978 rev1410
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:49)
RimWorld.VersionControl:LogVersionNumber() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\Version\VersionControl.cs:83)
Verse.Root:CheckGlobalInit() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:82)
Verse.Root:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:38)
Verse.Root_Entry:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:16)

Initializing new game with mods Core, 1434137894
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:49)
Verse.Game:InitNewGame() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:279)
Verse.Root_Play:<Start>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:60)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)

Cannot use this GetColoredVersion with a non-white colorTwo.
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.Log:ErrorOnce(String, Int32, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:105)
Verse.Graphic_StackCount:GetColoredVersion(Shader, Color, Color) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Graphic\Graphic_StackCount.cs:25)
Verse.GraphicData:GraphicColoredFor(Thing) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:158)
Verse.Thing:get_DefaultGraphic() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Thing.cs:351)
Verse.Thing:get_Graphic() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Thing.cs:361)
Verse.Thing:DrawAt(Vector3, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Thing.cs:888)
Verse.Thing:Draw() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Thing.cs:880)
Verse.ThingWithComps:Draw() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\ThingWithComps.cs:326)
Verse.DynamicDrawManager:DrawDynamicThings() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\DynamicDrawManager.cs:78)
Verse.Map:MapUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\Map.cs:698)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:527)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)