Unstable build feedback thread

Started by Tynan, June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM

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mlzovozlm

#4275
personally, i 've never seen wealth or anything actually affected my runs that much or at all, the difficulty i feel 're relatively just right, relatively - since there's sometimes weird unbalance like the variety of raids, for example
in .19.78-.1981, my current run, there're just so many sapper raids, psychic drones while very little of ships, mechs, drop pods, infestations, manhunt packs, etc.

or maybe i just didn't know the "alternatives" so i couldnt tell :|

currently running on Rough Randy, 6 years, all researches done & no pawns dead yet since the start, the only annoying thing is the sapper attacks, they magically know the placement of all the traps in the map, so it's always up to the pawns to take them out

and with all the wooden traps lying around, 1 inferno or heavy blast shoot from centipedes and everything goes off in flame, meanwhile stone traps take weeks to rebuild :|

so well, i suppose, most complaints 're from the Extreme/Intense/Merciless ppl then? (which well, obviously, should be hard, no?)

Teleblaster18

Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness:  Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 416 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None

Debug Graphs/Notes for v.1981

Story Time:

-In an extraordinary turn of events, I got a Quest Reward of two Resurrector Serums...exactly the number that I need to bring my two colonists who died over a year and a half ago back from the dead.  I had them frozen in two sarcophagi, and lucky for me, the freezer temperature never thawed out.

I brought them both back to life, without any apparent harm.  Even their clothes had the "T" removed.  As a finishing touch, I had both of them destroy their own sarcophagus.  I didn't think they'd particularly want to see them again, every time they grab a meal.

A few raids, more Psychic Ships.  I'm really, really starting to loathe Mechanoids.  Outside of that, an enjoyable time playing.

Some graphs:


lauri7x3

Storyteller: randy
Difficulty: rough
Biome/hilliness: boreal forest
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 476
Hours played in the last 2 days: dunno, much

so i dont know how to recreate it, and im not sure if its accurate, but i think there is a bug with disappearing weapons, when equipping new ones. i had this now multiple times. the old equipped weapon just disappears and is never seen again :/

username2

Quote from: lauri7x3 on August 01, 2018, 07:37:56 AM
Storyteller: randy
Difficulty: rough
Biome/hilliness: boreal forest
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 476
Hours played in the last 2 days: dunno, much

so i dont know how to recreate it, and im not sure if its accurate, but i think there is a bug with disappearing weapons, when equipping new ones. i had this now multiple times. the old equipped weapon just disappears and is never seen again :/

your dude/dudette probably hauled the weapon back to stockpile after equipping new 1

myfirstme

Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: survival
Biome/hilliness: Extreme desert, flat
Commitment mode: (yes/no): No
Current colony age (days): 5
Hours played in the last 2 days: 2
Complete mod list: Prepare carefully

Haven't had much time to play yet, but came across 2 annoyences:

First, hauling when building and out of material in storage. Pawns walk across the map to get enough material for 1 piece of wall, go to wall, build, than walk back across the map again to get more. Instead of hauling maximum carry capacity, then build (storage is right next to wall to be built).

Second, when setting mining manually as priority, pawns mine a bit then stop and do another non-crucial task. Instead of finishing one tile of mining before doing sth else.



Greep

#4280
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): ~270
Hours played in the last 2 days: about 15

3 more years of Sea Ice.  Sea Ice is both pretty boring and pretty exciting.  It'd be nice if there were faster speeds available, because during the down times there's almost no micromanagement since there's so few colonists.  Just watching the fort can get a little boring even at 3 speed.

While turrets have taken care of many situations, it's really tense when you only have like 3 dudes to help out when they fail, though.  A 20 manhunting snowhares event, several sieges, and a ship event have all been three downed colonists from a crushing defeat.  In one instance I was almost unable to stop a siege as two cannibals had food poisoning and the enemy had 2 bolt action rifles.

I've only been able to really support one colonist joining per year, not just because of food, I've finally got hydroponics steady, but also lack of things to do. I've LRMSed a few sites, steel and uranium so far.  Things are seriously ramping up now, though, and it's mostly a matter of finding colonists that don't suck now that I'm more aware of how having too many colonists hurts.


Everyone's been seriously pissed off at each other because they're failing romances.  No idea why, they all like each other, but 5 years of rebuffedx5 is so weird.  You'd think the two cannibal lesbians would hit it off, but maybe they just want to eat each other.  Won't make that joke.   ::)

I've been completely unable to stop myself from limiting wealth, it's just no fun xD  I have screwed around with adaptation every now and then when it's been like a year or two and I've had no incidents.  The most recent case I had a chased refugee that was worthless so I just let him be kidnapped.

[attachment deleted due to age]
1.0 Mods: Raid size limiter:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42721.0

MineTortoise:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42792.0
HELLO!

(WIPish)Strategy Mode: The experienced player's "vanilla"
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43044.0

BlueMarble007

Quote from: BlueMarble007 on July 31, 2018, 08:48:38 AM
Hi devs! Quick question: why is 'Look everywhere'/'Look in stockpile X' only available for Do Until You Have X and not for Do Forever and Do X Times? And why isn't it available at all for Butchery (and, I presume, other such tasks)? Is this temporary, or a bug?

It just dawned on me... the 'Look *' button isn't for the ingredients, but for counting the items in a certain stockpile. I feel very silly. To avoid confusion (as I can't imagine I'm the only one), maybe rename this button to 'Count items everywhere'/'Count items in stockpile X'? I'd love to see the functionality of what I thought this button did though: 'Take items from stockpile X' or 'Take items from stockpiles:' + a list of selectable stockpiles. Any chance this could be added in?

mlzovozlm

it'd be nice if unfinished work could be transfered into other pawn to be done if the 1 doing it  suddenly die, i sometimes 've 1 crafting pawn die, ending up wasting resource by deconstructing all the 'unfinished xxx' of the work he/she's been doing, it'd be quite annoying if it's something that use advanced component, plasteel or uranium :|

giltirn

Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Boreal forest, large hills
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age (days): end of winter year 2
Hours played in the last 2 days: no idea

Another piece of feedback: largely due to the trap change, my boreal forest map has become almost completely denuded. I have quite literally harvested every tree on the map. While new trees spawn occasionally it is far from enough to keep me going.

Aside from my earlier request to make traps cheaper, have multiple uses before breaking, or just to revert them back to the way they were in B18, I would like to suggest a simple QoL feature: we should be able to plant trees outside of the grow period. I understand why we can't do this with crops, but with trees it would be a great boon to lay these in winter and have them start growing immediately when the growing season starts.

Tynan

Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.

New build is going up!

Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

giltirn

Quote from: Tynan on August 01, 2018, 10:14:05 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.

New build is going up!

Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.

Hi Tynan, thanks for the new build. Would you mind posting a complete changelog? It's quite difficult to test the effect of changes in the game if we don't know what has changed! Of course you might have decided that by not telling us about the changes we will provide more unbiased feedback?

mlzovozlm

it just came to my mind that, growing healroots to 100% (basically wait for the pawns to harvest on their own) is rather time-wasting, consider you can 've them harvest the trees at ~70%-80% & the yield 'd still be 1 herb medicine like 100%, so why waste time waiting the last 20%? 

bbqftw

#4287
Quote from: giltirn on August 01, 2018, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: Tynan on August 01, 2018, 10:14:05 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.

New build is going up!

Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.

Hi Tynan, thanks for the new build. Would you mind posting a complete changelog? It's quite difficult to test the effect of changes in the game if we don't know what has changed! Of course you might have decided that by not telling us about the changes we will provide more unbiased feedback?
it makes bug reporting a pain because half the the time you have no idea how the systems are supposed to work, so how are you suppose to tell when they are not working.

I have seen games that consistently do this, that describe perks/abilities in intentionally vague values.

It then takes several months to fix something that can be resolved in days if the proper values were provided.

Kubouch

Quote from: giltirn on August 01, 2018, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: Tynan on August 01, 2018, 10:14:05 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.

New build is going up!

Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.

Hi Tynan, thanks for the new build. Would you mind posting a complete changelog? It's quite difficult to test the effect of changes in the game if we don't know what has changed! Of course you might have decided that by not telling us about the changes we will provide more unbiased feedback?

Good hint might be browsing the Bugs section for threads recently closed by Tynan.

Lanilor

#4289
Quote from: giltirn on August 01, 2018, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: Tynan on August 01, 2018, 10:14:05 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.

New build is going up!

Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.

Hi Tynan, thanks for the new build. Would you mind posting a complete changelog? It's quite difficult to test the effect of changes in the game if we don't know what has changed! Of course you might have decided that by not telling us about the changes we will provide more unbiased feedback?

I guess the reason is that you should just play and give feedback on how you experienced playing. For this it is no need to know the exact changes.
Of cause there are arguments for and against it and different ways to do this. I like complete patchnotes too, but I understand the reasons behind this. It can just be annoying when you think something works like you have it in mind but it did get changed. Although that is one of the things to expect when playing unstable.

Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 01, 2018, 11:07:07 AM
it just came to my mind that, growing healroots to 100% (basically wait for the pawns to harvest on their own) is rather time-wasting, consider you can 've them harvest the trees at ~70%-80% & the yield 'd still be 1 herb medicine like 100%, so why waste time waiting the last 20%? 

It does not always yield 1 herbal medicine. If a crop is harvested it has a float value of the yield which gets rounded randomly. So your healroot might yield 0.8 herbal meds which is most of the time 1 but sometimes you get 0 even when not botching/failing to harvest.

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Scenario: Tribal start
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival/savage
Biome/hilliness: Arid, flat
Commitment mode: no (for testing branches, commiting in the main game)
Current colony age (days): 129
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~12
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer, Simple Stockpile Presets, Single Plant Texture Patch

- My colonists are pretty happy this game. One of them is always above 100 mood and recently got an inspiration while being on another inspiration, so the second one did overwrite the first. They were both shooting, so I'm not sure if it really was overwritten or refreshed, but if overwriting is possible, it can result in really annoying cases like overwriting a crafting inspiration shortly before someone finished crafting.

- Drug production is under crafting work type but the speed comes from intelligence. So I need to manually set that only my intelligent colonists craft drugs, otherwise someone with 30% speed always starts to do that.

- I had a bug where after powering on a chemfuel powered generator, that one did not produce power and kept the "no power" symbol as if it now need power instead of producing it. Was fueled of cause and I waited a long enough time for it to start. It was after a zzzt where all my batteries were empty and no wind, so I had big power shortage. The second chemfuel generator activated normally. Toggleing again also did not help. I replaced it in devmode, the new one worked fine too.

- Relation gain from trading is not really clear. My last caravan traded goods for over 5k silver and I got 3 relation points from 56 to 59. A huge part of this was goods against goods in a single trade. I'm not sure if this gives less points than selling and buying separately, but it feels like it compared to other trade I made. After that with another faction I trades for around 2k and got 2 relation points from 90 to 92. Is relation harder to get on the rough factions? I have almost always 100 with the civil outlanders (their outpost also is closer so I trade more with them) but the rough ones are hard to get up. I also had better stuff to buy at the civil outlanders, but that may be just luck and a small sample size.

- I'm also at a point where I have a lot silver stored because I can't find anything valueable enough to buy with it. My research is way behind, I already bought archotech, artefacts, most weapons (the rest is from raiders) and power armor but can't produce any of this. But it was not easy to do that as it may sound, since I really focus on producing and selling stuff to buy useful items and there is a lot risk involved to not get a raid at the wrong time. The only thing may be that hunting is a bit too profitable, but it also takes a lot work from various colonists to hunt, cook, tailor and produce chemfuel and of cause depends on the biome. Although I don't think arid shrubland has even the most animals. A biome with herd mitigations or forest may give more. Anyway, most stuff now I decide to not buy because of too bad quality. Earlier I bought things like a normal minigun or power armor, now it's not really worth it. I would like a money sinkhole for lategame but this may be too special and more a mod idea. (Like there are some specialists in faction outpost I could order to produce an item of nice quality, but it also takes time and has a risk of either bad quality or I get a random item.). Or I can invest in an outpost of an ally so they have more or better items in the future.

- How about an "untuned" or "everything" option at the mineral scanner with a little bit higher chance to find something.

- A scanner variant with a mixture of a comms console to scan for world quests. Could also be aa social or social/research job with the background that the colonist asks around everywhere if anyone found something unusual.I also like the idea someone had earlier for an ancient danger world quest, although the normal danger might be too valuable, but a smaller one for these quests might work. Especially that I had no danger on my map this game, makes me miss one.

- Even as a tribal I did not see much value from researching plate armor or greatbows. I maybe would build them but the research is a big problem. Research if already hard enough and other stuff was way more important for me. By the time I could research plate armor, I already had flak. Raiders quickly have flak that even tainted is strong to wear, otherwise there is a good chance to get it from downed enemies or just buy it. Poor or normal flak costs under 500 or 400 silver which is not that hard to get for the value if one can't salvage any armor. I salvaged early and started buying stuff a few seasons in. I like salvaging and I also like that I can play only with it and not needing to craft anything (with the game then being harder of cause). Iirc I researched stonecutting, furniture, clothing, air conditioning and batteries, microelectronics, various drugs, ..., then later smithing/machining to just disassembly mechs

- Never had problems with caravans staying in my freezer anymore. They now stay close outside of my wall. Only minor problem I had is that they decide to eat in larger groups and block all my chairs (which aren't that much) and it happend a few times that my colonist then ate without table. I refuse to build a bigger table but I can also live with this if it doesn't get changed that caravan npcs just always eat while standing.

- The first wedding I had got canceled because someone else started a social fight with one of them. They took a long time until they tried again, but they did.

- I take more care of good mood this game than before. Mood management is a nice addition to the game. Could also have a bit more depth. Like more influence from and to social: Happy colonists are more friendly to each other, so they may start a romance or such. The other way around more effect of people hating each other on mood (like when someone is too close to a rival a "I have to work with someone I don't like -3" or such) Should not be too impactful, but a few minor things to keep track of and optimize to give it way more depth. I remember a story from someone a few days ago here where they had to build different rooms and areas for 2 colonists because they really hated each other and just started a lot social fights. And of cause some positive things from this as well. I currently try to hook up two of my colonists by letting them do a lot together but with limited success so far. Both even tried a romance to each other but at the wrong time so they both rejected (The rejection may give a too big debuff to social points). I think a bit more of this could be a nice alternative challenge to just raids. Both social and mood, although too much social would result in The Sims.

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Graphs attached. (There are again a few raids missing in the graphs as red dots. A refugee chase raid is there, at least one normal is missing (and a siege I think))

- The wealth spikes down and corresponding fun points are when one or more colonists went away to sell a huge amount of goods.
- On the population graph missing is one prisoner I recruited and got instantly killed. I think it was day 39 but not sure (could also be one later).
- A "wealth colonists" graph may be useful cut of from items, where I can see the wealth of worn stuff (so items in use). I think my item wealth in stockpiles in somewhat constant and even going down in the last time. Would be interesting to see this.
- "Wealth silver" would be a bonus, not sure if there is much use in it of if it's just more disturbing graph spam.
- The huge mood drop day 114 was me harvesting organs, selling prisoners and butchering people. I think it was around -54 or -59 for most of them. Someone got a minor break, 2 had to take a few drugs, but manageable and my own fault of cause (which is way more fun than random stuff).

Timelapse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaLGJhkZhNc

[attachment deleted due to age]