The balancing process

[Canute]

Doesn't any hit, even deflected, would lower the Armor HP ?
Then after a while the legendary power armor becomes holes, and you will take damage.

[Madman666]

Armor and weapons doesn't lose its properties based on its hp level now. So until its destroyed with that new mechanic legendary armor will grant you invulnerability. Can't say i like that. Well unless i get it all wrong about this new candidate mechanic.

I still more or less vote for simple percentage to block mechanic based on if the part is covered by armor layer or not. I certainly understand people getting annoyed by their colonist's eyes getting eaten out by squirrel through power armor, but the example with bear snapping someone's neck - thats still plausible and this new block chance still offers a decent armor quality based probability of survival.

[Mihsan]

-Weapons with zero effect on a given armor. If enemy has such armor, it may be frustrating. If you do, may be boring. Can anyone comment on experiences in Fallout with this?

Fallout had:
- Random damage output
- Random damage types and many weapons with them (bullets, plasma, laser, fire, electric...)
- Random critical hits that could bypass DR/DT
- A way to deal critical hits more often (i.e. strike areas like eyes / head / groin) by wasting more action points (i.e. making much less hits but)
- There were also different types of ammo (AP/JHP), but they never worked really (JHP was better against everything while beign cheaper)

So when you had DT=15 (power armor) and was shot with very common hunting rifle that deals 8-20 damage - you still was not 100% safe. High-end plasma and Gaus weapons were pretty common on endgame stages and they would always pass DT on any armor. Some foes had attacks that ignore DT at all (like poison or radiation). There were couple of early game weapons and foes that could never pass that DT, but they were still dangerous because of possible critical hits. Also I always saw partial invulnerability of power armor as "working as intended" - I love that thing about Fallout (both for me and my NPC foes) much more than what we have in RimWorld when rat can bite through legendary power armor. As for other armors: RimWorld armored vest has partial coverage, which even at infinite DT would not make wearer 100% safe; and medieval plate armor should not have too high DT from the start (just to stop arrows and such); something like devilstrand shirt in Fallout would be more about DR rather than DT.

[Albion]

One of the changes Tynan announced was that apperal armor rating won't get affected by its hp anymore. Therefore as long as my legendary power armor has at least 1 HP left I would be immune to bullets.

Do deflected bullets even deal damage? I'm guessing not very much.

[Akyla]

I think the proposed mechanic would work, though to me power armor is literally like wearing a tank, meaning it is OP by definition.
Therefore it should definitely allow you to withstand small arms fire to some degree.

For gameplay reasons, I understand that may not be desirable though.
I would suggest making sure that each tech level has a weapon heavy enough to counter it.

[Tynan]

Quick question Tynan with your new system:
If I get legendary power armor with 200% sharp protection. Am I invincible?
Because the way I read it means that unless someone shoots me with a gun that has more than 100 damage or 100% AP it is impossible to roll for anything else than deflect which means all damage gets negated.
I could probably still get damaged by heat or blunt but any bullets will be negated.

Not invincible. For every 1 AP the weapon has, there's a 1% chance of taking some diminished (blunt) damage. So a normal bullet or arrow has a 10% chance of bruising you, a sniper has a 25% chance.

And of course you can get hit in uncovered parts or have your armor destroyed.

However, in any case, I don't anticipate adding any 200% armor in the game.

[Madman666]

As long as current blocking system stays as it is (flat percentage to shrug off hits) i am fine with additions like armor penetration and damage reduction. And i actually quite like the "some blunt damage goes through" thingy. It definitely should be a thing for high caliber weapons like sniper rifles. Really feels right, because you know - you'll feel it a lot if you get hit even by a light caliber bullet through a bulletproof vest. Bruises are more or less guaranteed.

[Akyla]

I would expect blunt damage to have zero risk of infection, but I don't know if that's the case.

Is this so?

In that case having damage converted to blunt is still a great benefit.
Well... unless it kills you anyways.

[XeoNovaDan]

I would expect blunt damage to have zero risk of infection, but I don't know if that's the case.

Superficial blunt damage doesn't have an infection risk, though blunt damage on organs will add the 'Crushed' hediff, which does have a small infection risk.

[DariusWolfe]

I would expect blunt damage to have zero risk of infection, but I don't know if that's the case.

Is this so?

In that case having damage converted to blunt is still a great benefit.
Well... unless it kills you anyways.

I dunno how Tynan's going to balance it, but big bruises can absolutely get infected, IRL. It's considerably less likely than an open wound (which, let's be honest, it's almost guaranteed without antibiotics) though.

[Madman666]

Well, it was already near guaranteed to get infection on a bleeding wound even in B18, unless it was a medical bed in a sterile hospital room and the tend was of high quality. And in 1.0 changelog says infection chance was upped even more. So i really hope there won't be infection chance for bruises.

Also now i am really looking forward to playing 1.0 with Medieval Times mod. I wonder how Vindar will balance his Brigand faction, which always sends armored ass tin cans. Now they can shrug off shots too! Scary

[Serenity]

The idea is that with an RPG you're focused on one character, so you care enough to think about complex calcluations. But in RW, you maybe don't want to do that do so many people.

Uh, there are plenty of party based RPGs where you manage your current party and even a roster of companions that stays in some place when you don't take them on missions. Granted, not as many as in a large Rimworld colony and you are more attached to them than a RW pawn, but RPGs are hardly all about a single player character.

[DariusWolfe]

Well, it was already near guaranteed to get infection on a bleeding wound even in B18, unless it was a medical bed in a sterile hospital room and the tend was of high quality.

What? No way. In B18, I don't even break out the meds for most wounds, bleeding or not. As I recall the early days of B17 (which I took active part in; With B18's launch, I had other stuff going on, alas) the infection chance was crazy high, but by the time B18 rolled around, it seemed a little too easy. As it stands with UB1.0 I still don't break out the meds that often, unless an infection occurs, or something else like disease (or most recently, a case of muscle parasites, followed not a few days later by plague; I'm not sure how I'm going to manage the plague with less than 20 meds..., esp. with Doc down for the count; Second best-doc is 5 points lower, so I'm thinking self-treat, but I'm not sure). Infection chances are definitely up from B18, but they're not unmanageable at all.

Caveat: I'm playing Some Challenge. If you're playing higher then that would explain why you're seeing worse infections.

Uh, there are plenty of party based RPGs where you manage your current party and even a roster of companions that stays in some place when you don't take them on missions. Granted, not as many as in a large Rimworld colony and you are more attached to them than a RW pawn, but RPGs are hardly all about a single player character.

I suspect Tynan meant RPG in the original sense; Paper and dice on a table top, not CRPG. While troupe-style TTRPGs exist, they're not incredibly common. You typically have one character per player, and any hirelings that may exist are often managed by the GM, without a whole lot of detailed thought.

[Madman666]

What? No way. In B18, I don't even break out the meds for most wounds, bleeding or not. As I recall the early days of B17 (which I took active part in; With B18's launch, I had other stuff going on, alas) the infection chance was crazy high, but by the time B18 rolled around, it seemed a little too easy. As it stands with UB1.0 I still don't break out the meds that often...

Either you were lucky then, or i was unlucky, but pretty much every early game fight in B18 with bleeding injuries ended up with infections for me. And thats with herbal medicine treatment and me furiously cleaning the room to hold cleanliness high, since it affects the chance of infection.

Plague is just deadly without proper medicine... If you have a decent doc and plenty herbal medicine and micromanage treatments, so that it wasn't left unchecked at any point - its doable. However if its your doctor, who got the plague - you're more or less hosed. Even proper meds often won't be enough.

[DariusWolfe]

I checked back in to my UB1.0 game, and they're both doing well, actually; About 15-20% ahead on immunity, using regular meds (as I do for disease) in their own bedroom, still with rough-stone floors and walls, but clean otherwise. What difficulty are you playing at? If you're playing at Rough or higher, it could be that the difficulty amounts to more than we'd expect. I don't want to jinx anything (or have Tynan make anything any harder...) but it's easier than I expected, honestly. Of course, I also just got a Toxic Fallout too; I thought you were supposed to space these things out, Phoebes!