[1.0] Berries Discussion - lots of potential

Started by Syrchalis, July 09, 2018, 01:34:32 PM

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Syrchalis

I think the current implementation of berries (and I'm talking berry bushes and strawberries, both) is a bit lackluster. There is many easy ways to improve this. I tested most of these with patch operations in my games and I enjoyed it.

First, berry bushes were excellent in B18 and before, because they grew fast (3 days, now it's 6) and gave absurd amounts of nutrition (10, it's still 10). It made them the best crop in the entire game by far, but they were random and nearly disappeared later into the game. I think their efficiency is fine, because there isn't many of them, especially now in 1.0.

Halving their growing time definitely makes them a lot better and more useful, especially early where it's mostly needed. If they would grow in a bit tighter clusters and with a bit more bushes they would be perfect. It's really pleasant to play if there is few, but large clusters of bushes you can harvest regularly - until the lifespan of the bushes is reached. At this point you should not rely solely on berries anymore.

Strawberries, they are the odd crop. Potatoes for poor soil, Corn needs little labor but is risky, rice needs a lot of labor but produces the most and is solid due to short growing times. Strawberries? You can eat them raw but... food poisoning.

I think what they need is a niche. And I think their niche could be "super low labor/replace bad cook with good grower" - basically when harvested they don't need to be sown again, just like berry bushes. Increase grow time and yield. Their food poison chance should be really low, much lower than other raw food. They could also give a tiny mood buff "ate juicy berries" +3 mood. It's not as good as a fine meal, but it's better than simple meals. Their nutrition could be reduced, so you need to eat more of them - why is this relevant? Storage. They need more space.

So you have a grower with high enough skill to plant strawberries, they have to be harvested rarely, don't need to be planted again (at least for a long time) and give a small mood buff. You also don't need to cook and deal with high food poison chance (but there still is a chance). The downside is long growing time (risky), needs lots of space, needs growing skill, low nutrition per time (= again need more space because you need to plant more) - and always the chance you might still get food poison, however small it may be.

Last but not least, they could be a joy source, albeit a really bad one, if the mood buff is not wanted.

I just think that would give them a proper purpose in the game and some people will default to using strawberries if they don't start out with a good cook or don't want to deal with kitchen/cleaning/setup etc..
For mod support visit the steam pages of my mods, Github or if necessary, write me a PM on Discord. Usually you will find the best help in #troubleshooting in the RimWorld discord.

Scavenger

I do like most of this! And it is annoying having them spread out so far randomly and having to hunt for them.. Tighter clusters of berries would be especially nice. Why food poisoning for raw strawberries?
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde

Serenity

#2
They could be a bit like chocolate in that regard. Also fits with the Firefly theme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uBTQI1qt4Y

Syrchalis

Quote from: Scavenger on July 09, 2018, 04:34:28 PM
Why food poisoning for raw strawberries?
That's already the case. My suggestion was to lower it so it happens less often than other raw food. Completely removing it would probably make them too safe and until you can afford making lavish meals all the time people wouldn't switch. (why bother with meat, having a cook for fine meals and possible food poisoning if you can just eat berries?)
For mod support visit the steam pages of my mods, Github or if necessary, write me a PM on Discord. Usually you will find the best help in #troubleshooting in the RimWorld discord.

Scavenger

I'm saying it shouldn't be there, along with Berry's probably.
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde

Syrchalis

Still the same issue then. Problem is not that it's already there, problem is berries compete with fine meals. They should be worse than fine meals. If they can't be poisonous and fine meals can then berries will instantly replace them. No cook needed, no work needed, no meat needed (so no good hunters either), just slightly worse mood buff (or no mood buff and joy source, same impact really). It's just too many advantages.

If they have a non-removable poison chance they are more balanced. Because fine meals give better buff and eventually, when you have a good cook, they also are nearly never poisoned, making them the clear winner LATER, just as it should be.
For mod support visit the steam pages of my mods, Github or if necessary, write me a PM on Discord. Usually you will find the best help in #troubleshooting in the RimWorld discord.

Snafu_RW

#6
Some berries/mushrooms  are poisonous (even deadly) IRL (same goes for other plants ofc) - see many examples of hemlock (aka deadly nightshade) mistaken for blackcurrants, even in RL 'modern times' when ppl were educated. How many of your colonists have woodsy skills enough to pick the right ones? Even edible berries/fruits can cause (mild) food poisoning if unripe

An unskilled cook wouldn't recognise the dangers of using such ingredients, especially if gathered by an unskilled grower (the two skills should harmonise); a skilled one should do so with appropriate wastage (unfeasible IG so far, I suspect)
Dom 8-)

Bolgfred

As for strawberries I would love if they couldn't be put in a freezer, as they will go bad within. It would make berries a more double edged blade, if you will gain quick food, with mood benefits, but are unable to hamster them permanently, so putting it up as a permanent solution it would be more challenging.
"The earth has only been lent to us,
but no one has said anything about returning."
-J.R. Van Devil

Serenity

Quote from: Bolgfred on July 10, 2018, 03:59:06 AM
As for strawberries I would love if they couldn't be put in a freezer, as they will go bad within
Strawberries don't last much longer in a refrigerator, but you can freeze berries perfectly fine

TheMeInTeam

Do berries actually give a mood benefit?  I'd just remove that and the food poisoning chance from harvested crops of pawn-planted berries.

This gives them a niche: you can grow them and skip cooking, but they don't keep well unless you freeze them, which is generally not necessary with other crops.  You need a decent growing skill to plant them, which is a substitute for cooking skill early.  More established colonies would still want to transition off them, because they don't get the fine meal mood buff and food poisoning is rare in a clean kitchen + decently skilled cook.