My experience with 1.0 Mechanoids

[DubskiDude]

(180k colony wealth, mountainous boreal forest, Rough difficulty)

I really think Mechanoids in general need some looking at. Here's what I've experienced with them thus far in 1.0:

Scythers:
The recent speed nerf helped a bit. Now that I'm past the mid game and have more options available, they're more manageable, at least in my current playthrough. I still feel like 72% sharp armor is a bit much, though. On the flip side, I feel they die too easily to traps. For example, a while back I had excavated 2-wide tunnels just to allow for easier pawn movement (on a regular Large map). I then placed 7-8 steel traps each in three of these tunnels just to take care of any kind of enemy that would walk through. I had a Mechanoid event occur, and 4-5 Lancers and Scythers touched down on the map. I moved my screen over to my base and put my pawns into formation, but no Mechanoids appeared. I then humorously discovered they had all been eviscerated by the traps I had laid far away from base. The traps killed them all 2-3 times quicker than my formation of assault rifles and snipers. I would definitely recommend lowering Scyther's sharp armor (so that it doesn't nearly rival Centipede sharp armor), but also make them detect traps more often. There's a noticeable difference between sitting at a sandbag line for 5 minutes, hearing the "dinks" of them shrugging off bullets, and them dying off screen within 60 seconds due to steel traps. It makes it feel like setting unreasonable amounts of traps in front of your base is a better strategy than arming your colonists with the best guns you can make or buy.

Lancers:
I think Lancers got a range buff, though I'm not sure. What I've found, though, is that it's faster to just have your shooter pawns bumrush and melee attack a lancer to death with the stock of their guns rather than shoot at them, even if you have around 6-7 shooters who range from 11 to 16 shooting skill. The damage actually delivered from shooting seems paltry when you're constantly missing, and a portion of the bullets that do connect are deflected. Why risk the extended amount of time it takes to shoot from a distance when you can just Zerg-rush and pistol whip them to death? Something seems off to me.

Centipedes:
These are quickly becoming my biggest point of contention concerning Mechanoids during the late game. Recently a poison ship landed on the map, and since it's far too punishing to take my colonists to them, I decided to load mortars (which I hardly ever do) and coax them to the front door of my base. Melee Scythers were taken care of rather easily from traps and how their movement speed had them separated from the mob, allowing pawns to focus on them (Centipedes are obviously slow, so they lagged behind, and Lancers were more interested at shooting turrets from a distance rather than bumrushing, thus staying out of range). Things become extremely aggravating when the Centipedes got into position, though. Prior to 1.0 they would take a huge amount of shots to bring down, which was understandable, but 1.0 feels like it's been cranked up to 11. Against one, there were constant "dings" of bullets bouncing off, and the few that hit did only a sliver of damage. Direct hits from mortars did slightly better damage, but their long reload times and their massive inaccuracy made them near useless at mid-range (they eventually became a detriment when Inferno Cannons lit them on fire... boom). Playing against Centipedes literally boiled down to pumping unreasonable amounts of bullets into them, hoping that one would connect, rinse and repeat for 5-10 minutes while your colonists are sprayed with charge blaster shots or fireballs. I caught myself saying out loud "this isn't fun". And it wasn't. It just felt like flipping a coin to see how many times you'd get heads, and the goal was to get 100 heads. It was near-monotonous. It also feels like damaging their parts doesn't affect Centipede's accuracy, since Charge Blasters are spray-and-pray (they'll hit something eventually), and Inferno Cannons are basically "fire and forget" (they'll also hit something eventually). Given how long it takes Centipedes to die, they have plenty of time to dish out tons of damage. Unlike humans, they retain their efficacy despite how much damage they take. It also seems they can't be "downed" anymore, making them even more dangerous. EMP also did not help a single bit in my situation. Mortars are too inaccurate and can't be relied upon, so EMP mortars are a no go. EMP grenades' range is just too short, and whoever has them equipped will have to run out of their trenches into the line of fire to get close enough. Perfect for being picked off by a Charge Lance or Blaster. And to down a Centipede, they'll have to STAY in the line of fire to smother it with EMP, and as previously stated, they take forever to go down, so it's just too risky.

What would I suggest to fix it? Partially tie Centipede armor% to their body parts. For example, if their fourth body ring is destroyed, lower their armor by 5-10%. This would make "wounds" affect the Centipede, similar to how wounds affect Sight/Manipulation/Movement/etc for human raiders. From the get go, the Centipedes would shrug off lots of bullets, but would eventually have their armor chipped away, allowing for more shots that actually connect, making the fight less of a continuous coin flip.

[Greep]

It sounds counterintuitive, but what I've found effective when I haven't been able to get centipedes in cannon range and I need to deal with a small amount, is just straight up meleeing them in plate armor.  Their bludgeoning attack doesn't seem to be as bad as I remember in b18, and meleeing them makes sure you don't get hit with various heavy weaponry (and having dudes without armor shoot them once the centipedes stop being able to fire back).  It's risky if you don't have shield belt, but I've actually yet to have a death this way, even when I got caught without emp grenades, even when fighting multiple centipedes.

Probably not effective against a lot of centipedes, but then then maybe it is once you get excellent power armor.

[DubskiDude]

It sounds counterintuitive, but what I've found effective when I haven't been able to get centipedes in cannon range and I need to deal with a small amount, is just straight up meleeing them in plate armor.  Their bludgeoning attack doesn't seem to be as bad as I remember in b18, and meleeing them makes sure you don't get hit with various heavy weaponry (and having dudes without armor shoot them once the centipedes stop being able to fire back).  It's risky if you don't have shield belt, but I've actually yet to have a death this way, even when I got caught without emp grenades, even when fighting multiple centipedes.

Probably not effective against a lot of centipedes, but then then maybe it is once you get excellent power armor.

Centipedes' melee damage got nerfed in 1.0, but I personally don't use melee pawns. I find them too risky, amongst other things. But speaking of melee, I feel like Ludeon Studios is hamfistedly forcing people to use melee against Mechanoids, since their blunt armor is significantly lower than their sharp.

[Oblitus]

It sounds counterintuitive, but what I've found effective when I haven't been able to get centipedes in cannon range and I need to deal with a small amount, is just straight up meleeing them in plate armor.  Their bludgeoning attack doesn't seem to be as bad as I remember in b18, and meleeing them makes sure you don't get hit with various heavy weaponry (and having dudes without armor shoot them once the centipedes stop being able to fire back).  It's risky if you don't have shield belt, but I've actually yet to have a death this way, even when I got caught without emp grenades, even when fighting multiple centipedes.

Probably not effective against a lot of centipedes, but then then maybe it is once you get excellent power armor.

Centipedes' melee damage got nerfed in 1.0, but I personally don't use melee pawns. I find them too risky, amongst other things. But speaking of melee, I feel like Ludeon Studios is hamfistedly forcing people to use melee against Mechanoids, since their blunt armor is significantly lower than their sharp.

Not only against mechanoids, blunt armor is generally much lower.

[DubskiDude]

Not only against mechanoids, blunt armor is generally much lower.

I'm really not sure why "sharp" covers both bullets AND swords. I don't think the two should even be in the same category. Sharp currently covers bullets, melee weapons (+ claws/teeth), and explosions. Blunt covers fists, blunt melee weapons, and "rock falls". Sharp, by comparison, seems to cover way more than blunt. I think Sharp could easily be split into "melee" and "projectile".

[Ser Kitteh]

Mechbois are strangely susceptible to melee. As XeoNovaDan's thread shows, spears are really damn good at piercing the ever living fuck our of their cybernetic innards. I had two centipedes drop, say "oh thank God" and sent GuineaPig and Harry to just poke them to death with their spears.

The biggest issue, as always, are the miniguns/charge miniguns and the fire launcher. Those still suck.

I too don't understand why "sharp" damage is both bullets and melee. Like, there's a big difference between between shanked and being shot after all.

[Bolgfred]

I too don't understand why "sharp" damage is both bullets and melee. Like, there's a big difference between between shanked and being shot after all.

That's why classic RPG mostly divides between piercing and slicing. A spear or arrow is attacking on a single point with a minimal size to penetrate things. A sword might slice on a bigger area to damage the surface.
AFAIK the idea to combine these into sharp is to keep things simple, which is a thing i i consider to be a good one. Nethertheless ist correct that blunt needs some love. For tribals I'd love to the sling as a ranged blunt weapon.

To fix the centipede thing i would rather suggest to give centipedes a sharp threshold instead of armor. Lets say their armor gets cut in halb but they gain a threshold of 10, which makes it immune against fast shooting things like minigun or rifle, but vulnerable against heavy hitters instead of the conventional weapons, making the less used ones more intresting. it would also favor e.g. tribals as pila would get quite effective against them :-)

[Snafu_RW]

I think Sharp could easily be split into "melee" and "projectile".

Cut (slash)/pierce dmg qualifications perhaps? This could apply to a lot of things other than mechs, too..

Chain armour: good vs slash; mediocre vs blunt; rotten vs pierce

Flak: good vs pierce; mediocre vs blunt & slash

Plate: good vs slash & blunt; mediocre vs pierce

Cloth (ie padded): good vs blunt, mediocre vs slash; rotten vs pierce

That sort of thing?

[Boboid]

EMP is well worth using. It's not quite as effective vs Lancers typically because of the range you engage them at. Fortunately lancers typically aren't hard to separate from Centipedes.
Simply pop your head around a corner with an emp grenade or have some emp IEDs ready if you know you're going to crack open a landed ship. Grenades in particular are useful when paired with shield belts, more on that later.

Melee is downright broken vs mechanoids at the moment if you're using spears - You will gib those centipedes so fast that you'll briefly check to see if your colonist has a lightsaber.
Likewise deadfall traps will do something similar though there is some variance.

Autocannons kick the living shit out of Centipedes (and pretty much everything else) so do consider including some if you're not happy with your armor penetration.

Shield belts can ignore a ridiculous amount of centipede firepower. Inferno cannons can't set a shielded pawn alight and when centipedes are at long range they're not particularly accurate making the other weapons quite manageable. Not so great vs Lancers - Their massive damage per shot can mean that 2-3 shots at once breaks a shield rendering it useless until it's recharged (which takes quite a while)

A small spread of 3-4 people in decent shield belts(and preferably cover) can tank centipedes for a truly silly amount of time so long as they're not being focus fired.

Additionally consider using Charge Lances of your own, they have excellent armor penetration and solid overall dps.

[Chibiabos]

I always have a lot more trouble with Lancers than Centipedes.  I guess its because of my cowardly kiting attacks; I like to target the fastest enemies with my snipers, bringing down their speed ... but Scythers are just too damned fast, and they score one-shot kills way too readily even against colonists with power armor + power helmet and colony wargs.

Centipedes are much easier to kite thanks to their lower speed and lower range on their weapons, I can take them down with snipers, fall back when they crawl close enough to bring one of my snipers into range and take my snipers back out of their range to continue my assault.  Yeah, they take an incredible number of hits to bring down, but I can usually keep my colonists safe by kiting them at range and staying out of their weapons range.  That's harder with Scythers, I've found.

[DubskiDude]

I recently watched a Scyther walk through 8 pawns worth of bullets, all the way from rifle range to 3-ish tiles from my pawns before dying. A single scyther. That shouldn't happen.