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Author Topic: Death is not the end of the game.  (Read 5468 times)

Enjou

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2013, 03:19:35 PM »

This would certainly be an interesting game mode.
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British

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2013, 03:56:49 PM »

This isn't a feature that makes the game harder or easier.

It changes the focus from being a game about your colonists to being a game about the colony.
Possibly, but I was answering to AspenShadow's idea of unlocking the option at some point, by proposing an alternative.
Am I allowed to do that ? ???
Pretty please ? :-[
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nomadseifer

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2013, 04:05:35 PM »

A very interesting Idea.  I would say that if its implemented, it should be considered a larger module and be a separate mode altogether.  Heres why:

1. Why a separate game mode???
If the end of your colony is really just another beginning, then the player is much more open to the idea of their colony's death.  Thus, the game can be made much harsher (leading to quicker death)than a 'normal' game mode, while still not alienating the player.  For example, if squirrels can overwhelm and destroy your colony, that could be really fun if you get to see what happens next with new colonists.  If that's the outright end, that kind of existential threat would be irritating. 

Also, the time factor.  if this mode were just a current part of the game, I don't think people would be as interested in using it.  At a certain point, you will have played long enough on your 200x200 spot, without death.  So when you do die, you won't be necessarily interested in rebuilding/continuing on the same piece of land that you've grown tired of.

2. Why a separate module???
The OP gives a few examples of how the colony could end.  For this mode to be really interesting, there need to be even more ways and they each need to develop organically in the game.  Proper time would need to be given to design and implementation and balancing. 
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AspenShadow

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2013, 04:25:42 PM »

It changes the focus from being a game about your colonists to being a game about the colony.
Possibly, but I was answering to AspenShadow's idea of unlocking the option at some point, by proposing an alternative.
Am I allowed to do that ? ???
Pretty please ? :-[

For the record, I was aware achievements aren't being implemented and was thinking something along the lines of recognition of... Play-time total for the game? How long that colony's lasted so far? Along with British' suggestion of storyteller difficulty. There are many ways this can be added without needing achievements to link the unlock to.

Be careful branding certain storytellers 'more difficult' considering the storytellers are supposed to be distinct from difficulty level as difficulty scales based on the player, or at least that's the theory of the AI and the premise of the storytellers themselves I was told. The variants are more about creating different flavoured playthroughs than harder/easier ones, though obviously at this early stage they're more like difficulty levels (Kassandra is actually described as such) than PC-Adaptive AI.
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Cowan108

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2013, 07:38:46 PM »

We need an upvote/downvote thing or something, so I can give this all my upvotes.
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Dragula

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2013, 09:00:20 PM »

Sounds like a great idea!

A very interesting Idea.  I would say that if its implemented, it should be considered a larger module and be a separate mode altogether.  Heres why:

1. Why a separate game mode???
If the end of your colony is really just another beginning, then the player is much more open to the idea of their colony's death.  Thus, the game can be made much harsher (leading to quicker death)than a 'normal' game mode, while still not alienating the player.  For example, if squirrels can overwhelm and destroy your colony, that could be really fun if you get to see what happens next with new colonists.  If that's the outright end, that kind of existential threat would be irritating. 

Also, the time factor.  if this mode were just a current part of the game, I don't think people would be as interested in using it.  At a certain point, you will have played long enough on your 200x200 spot, without death.  So when you do die, you won't be necessarily interested in rebuilding/continuing on the same piece of land that you've grown tired of.

2. Why a separate module???
The OP gives a few examples of how the colony could end.  For this mode to be really interesting, there need to be even more ways and they each need to develop organically in the game.  Proper time would need to be given to design and implementation and balancing.

It could be a sepperate storyteller-AI, "Endless Eric" or something :)
Or maybe a button or option in the running storryteller to start the endless mode?


About the squirrel-scenario;
The base is taken over by pirates who later would be overwhelmed by rabid squirrels, boomrats or even muffalo's.
The new colonists discover the sealed base and dig their way in. They discover the animals gone haywire and thus have to back out fast and temporally seal the entrance they made, setup shop outside and grow till they can go back in and take out the threat. Maybe using early mentioned air-conditioning and maybe smoke/gas(grenades)?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 09:04:54 PM by Dragula »
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Gazz

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2013, 09:43:32 PM »

How about...

If the player "loses", the game goes on serious fast forward.

People zip around, maybe fight, animals may move in, buildings decay... then the game slows down and the player gets control of whoever is living there. If anyone.
If not, the game keeps fast-forwarding until the storyteller brings new people in.

It's a little like the ending of Fallout 1+2. You see what happened afterwards.

A direct and unlimited transition of control between attacker and defender is dumb. That would be like mind control in X-Com. Drop the alien's weapon and walk it into the line of fire. Free shooting practice! =)


About the squirrel-scenario;
Any scenario with squirrels gets my vote.
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Kelfka

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2013, 10:30:24 PM »

That's pretty much what I had in mind if there wasn't any people left. The colony deteriorates due to lack of maintenance and natural events.
Until some one comes along and makes it its home.
Raiders don't have to automatically take over the base if you loose. They might very well chose to set everything on fire and leave.     
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Spike

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2013, 10:42:52 AM »

That's pretty much what I had in mind if there wasn't any people left. The colony deteriorates due to lack of maintenance and natural events.

A story with no characters.  :D  There will come soft rains.
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todofwar

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2013, 10:40:21 PM »

I think this is awesome. But to make it really interesting there would have to be more ways to die. Maybe if everyone is enslaved there is a way to start an uprising and take back your colony, but the pirates remember and will be back. Also, to really make this stick I think the maps need to be much bigger with more incentives to explore, ie ruins with artifacts or rare minerals needed for certain projects. Best part about this is that the difficulty can ramp up exponentially with less of that frustration feel. Losing your colonists after your underground layer was just getting perfect won't be so bad if you get to come back and work harder at it.
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owenkowenk

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2013, 10:52:20 PM »

Hope the game will be like that soon..........
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Eonwulf

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2013, 12:43:30 AM »

This would make it so you can't lose though. If every time you died to raiders you just take over them then what have you lost? Skills but those become entirely useless because if you die again you will just take control of the new raiders. All the weapons from your guys that just died will be picked up by the raiders that you now control. Literally nothing will be lost and it will negate any fear of a raider attack.
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mumblemumble

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2013, 12:51:49 AM »

While having control over the raiders when you lose seems...slightly unbalanced (except if it was a custom option) I think that it would be nice if raiders did more than burn the base down / piss on the carpets (Well, they don't REALLY piss on the carpets, but considering their MO, I wouldn't be surprised if they did.)

After all, they risk their lives to attack, I would think they would want more than just blowing stuff up. Would be neat if they took a base over somewhat, even if they managed it poorly it would be cool.
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Lothar

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2013, 01:37:31 AM »

the story teller could be some like " Old Pappy " or Randy randoms cousin " Rambling Candy " i don't know i'm not very good with names. This idea is epic though.
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todofwar

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Re: Death is not the end of the game.
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2013, 12:20:02 PM »

This would make it so you can't lose though. If every time you died to raiders you just take over them then what have you lost? Skills but those become entirely useless because if you die again you will just take control of the new raiders. All the weapons from your guys that just died will be picked up by the raiders that you now control. Literally nothing will be lost and it will negate any fear of a raider attack.

Yeah I don't quite like the idea of just taking over as raiders. Maybe the raiders will pillage your base so that when you get a new batch of colonists there is nothing but rubble, some food and metal stocks, maybe a generator or two. I also think the entrance to underground layers could cave in, so you have to redig out some parts.
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