Settling on a road should increase trade

Started by Third_Of_Five, August 05, 2018, 06:24:41 PM

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Third_Of_Five

Now that I've done a few play-throughs of this game, I've noticed that, despite what I initially thought, building a settlement on a road doesn't seem to increase the number of trade caravans that arrive. In fact, when adjusting for the impact of climate (which, to be fair, does seem to have an impact on caravans), geographic location doesn't seem to have any effect whatsoever on the frequency of trade caravans that arrive at your settlement.

Wouldn't it make more sense if the number of trade caravans you receive annually is heavily impacted by your settlement's proximity to a road?

To be clear, I am NOT asking for trade caravans to be nerfed. I simply think that the frequency of trade caravan events should be increased from what it normally is if your settlement is built on or close to an existing road.

Perhaps this could be a double-edged sword; I know that balance is a very important aspect of this game, so maybe if this were implemented, it would also increase the number of raids that your settlement gets as well? After all, a prosperous trading post would make a very tempting target for pirates..

Just a thought, might make a nice addition to the game for the 1.0 release.

Or maybe I'm wrong, and this is already implemented, but I just haven't noticed yet.

5thHorseman

I agree. And if you're 3 days from the nearest road nobody should just be walking by. Like, ever.

Trade AND raids should be limited by distance from a road. And raids should be proportional to how close you are to the nearest settlement of that type, maybe except drop-pod raids.

Also, raids should not be modified as much as trade, as you can always get ships with a beacon.
Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

Third_Of_Five

Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 05, 2018, 08:33:44 PM
And raids should be proportional to how close you are to the nearest settlement of that type, maybe except drop-pod raids.

Well, not necessarily. As I said, a wealthy trading post would be a massive target for raids. So I don't think that proximity to a pirate settlement or the type of raids you get should really matter.

bobomite

I like it. 

I initially assumed that building a colony on the road meant more trade.  I was actually surprised to learn over time that it makes no difference.

Chicken Breast

I like where you are headed with this line of thinking! :D

I agree that trading and raiding should increase by the proximity to a road, but it should also make sense. For instance, if you generate some worlds at 100% and just look at them, you'll notice that there are a LOT of roads that don't go very far. I've seen a road from a colony to nothing, about five squares away. I've seen them also span several colonies, branch to support offshoots of those colonies, and more. So, it's hard to ask for the coding involved, just because then they also now have to look at redoing the road system somewhat.

To be quite frank, I'm not a coder/programmer because I don't have the knack for it. I don't know much about it and never felt the need to delve into it. So I'm not sure how doable this is, or if it would be an issue, etc. I just feel like it is more than just "roads should equal more trade/raids"

Because realistically, from what we know of Rimworld Lore so far, and the tech that the colonies already seem to have, we know that many people travel by way of transport pod. This is for good reason since it takes a lot of complicated risks out of normal caravan travel. That said, it can fail and leave people stranded in the middle of nowhere en route to their destination.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that there should be an increase in interaction overall (trades, raids, visitors) and a shorter time before you see your first people. For instance, if you spawn close to a colony, they should be pretty quick to come to see who you are and what you're all about. After all, in the 'Need Defenses' notification, it tells us that we have likely been seen by now and we should expect visitors soon.

This goes to my suggestion regarding the idea of enemy colonies using scout pawns. It'd be an interesting event to see a spy or something scoping out your defenses, but just as feasible that they used some kind of tech to get info on your colony.

But yea, traders should be more frequent on roads, as well as everything else. Of course, if more traders are visiting you then you're more likely to be doing better faster and therefore you'll be the target of larger raids anyway.

All in all, great idea! I hope it actually gets fleshed out and integrated to some degree into the game!

Sig by Me!

Bolgfred

I like the idea.

Maybe every location could get a visitor-value similar to the harvest plant level from caravaning, which defines how easy the location is to find.
The closer to a road, the more visitors, traiders and raider will come.
Meaning 150% on a road, 100% next to a road and -5% for every further tile away.
"The earth has only been lent to us,
but no one has said anything about returning."
-J.R. Van Devil

Third_Of_Five

Quote from: Bolgfred on August 13, 2018, 05:47:17 AM
Meaning 150% on a road, 100% next to a road and -5% for every further tile away.

I think that's a bit too much, like I said I don't want to nerf trade caravans.
I agree with the general idea, but I think it should be more like 150% on a road, 125% near a road and the rest would range from 100% to 50% anywhere else depending on how far away you are from the nearest road or settlement.

Bolgfred

Quote from: Third_Of_Five on August 13, 2018, 11:26:54 AM
Quote from: Bolgfred on August 13, 2018, 05:47:17 AM
Meaning 150% on a road, 100% next to a road and -5% for every further tile away.

I think that's a bit too much, like I said I don't want to nerf trade caravans.
I agree with the general idea, but I think it should be more like 150% on a road, 125% near a road and the rest would range from 100% to 50% anywhere else depending on how far away you are from the nearest road or settlement.
Don't focus on the number. Was just and example. I just wanted to point out a big difference between 'on a road' and 'near a road'.

But still I think 50% more caravans are not that much strong. Especially if combined with a chance on more frequent raider attacks. Nevertheless, was just an example
"The earth has only been lent to us,
but no one has said anything about returning."
-J.R. Van Devil

dogui

#8
I agree.
More deeply, I think that, exactly as in the reality, to precipitate onto a desert land or very close to a pacific ad rich village would give very different chances to survive.
In the middle of a desert (hot and dry or iced) even Pirates would think carefully if raid is a good idea.
Setting your shelter on the street should give you a great visibility, so many contacts with humanity.

A bit off topic, but want to share with you too.
Always in order to respect realistic life, I think three normal survivors wish to join the very first faction they meet, if possible instead of create a new one which at the moment is only an abstract idea. If me, you and a bank employee find us lost on a planet and meet some men which live not far from we precipitate... first thing we think is "men, what about our colony to join your faction and respect your Major rules? We're good boys".

Also, if the crew is made up of an engineer, an expert surgeon and a veteran... well.. I suppose every community would like to hire them!
Knolewdge is most valuable power when you have to manage a community.

Maybe pawn could have a new code, the Human Capital (HC), which shows that.
Join a faction would open new game mechanics: duties, rights, new politics, major elections.

Third_Of_Five

Quote from: dogui on August 14, 2018, 08:00:51 AM
A bit off topic, but want to share with you too.
Always in order to respect realistic life, I think three normal survivors wish to join the very first faction they meet, if possible instead of create a new one which at the moment is only an abstract idea. If me, you and a bank employee find us lost on a planet and meet some men which live not far from we precipitate... first thing we think is "men, what about our colony to join your faction and respect your Major rules? We're good boys".

Also, if the crew is made up of an engineer, an expert surgeon and a veteran... well.. I suppose every community would like to hire them!
Knolewdge is most valuable power when you have to manage a community.

Maybe pawn could have a new code, the Human Capital (HC), which shows that.
Join a faction would open new game mechanics: duties, rights, new politics, major elections.

An interesting idea, but honestly while that does seem logical for real people to do in that situation it has two fundamental problems:

1. It is waaay to difficult to properly implement
2. It kind of defeats the whole point of the game. The idea of the game is to start your own space colony on a lawless distant planet. It's called a 'colony simulator' for a reason.

Like what would happen if you decide to join another faction? Would you gain control over that faction? Or would you still only control your own colonists? If so, then what's the point?
I just don't see how any of this would work alongside the rest of the game.

dogui

The colony is managed in the same way.
Just belongs to a planet faction and is called to respect some rules. Fight the same war, help when allies are in need, propose newfaction buildings, vote the major etc

Bolgfred

Quote from: dogui on August 14, 2018, 06:21:24 PM
The colony is managed in the same way.
Just belongs to a planet faction and is called to respect some rules. Fight the same war, help when allies are in need, propose newfaction buildings, vote the major etc

Careful. Now your twisting words.
Yes there are factions, towns, planets and people in rimworld. But there are no elections, societies or politics. It's not the same.
So, this might be a reasonable idea, to put colonists into a society, but that would be another game, as rimworld is not intended to display these elements.
These actually would be very boring as there is no base builder AI written yet.

A more realistic way I could think of, would be, that if you surrender your last colony, you can 'join' a settlement, meaning you enter a new map with some structures and few colonists living there already, which simply be added to your colonist list.
But, as you said, that's another topic. Create one and discuss there.
"The earth has only been lent to us,
but no one has said anything about returning."
-J.R. Van Devil

Third_Of_Five

Quote from: Bolgfred on August 15, 2018, 05:10:24 AM
Careful. Now your twisting words.
Yes there are factions, towns, planets and people in rimworld. But there are no elections, societies or politics. It's not the same.
So, this might be a reasonable idea, to put colonists into a society, but that would be another game, as rimworld is not intended to display these elements.
These actually would be very boring as there is no base builder AI written yet.

A more realistic way I could think of, would be, that if you surrender your last colony, you can 'join' a settlement, meaning you enter a new map with some structures and few colonists living there already, which simply be added to your colonist list.
But, as you said, that's another topic. Create one and discuss there.

This tbh. Feel free to start your own suggestion thread about this idea, dogui, and post a link to it in this one.