I have stopped playing the game because of raiders

[Kevlar]

I've recently started a new game on Randy Random with the self imposed challenge of no turrets in the colony. So far I've annihilated a raider force of 15 with only 5 shooters (2 shotguns, 1 M16, 2 Lee-Enfields). It isn't difficult once you start thinking about your colony design in terms of ease of defense, even without turrets.

Here's how I did it. I built my colony underground and with a defensive gauntlet. Like so,
http://tinyurl.com/mg7o83k

Granted, this exploits the Enemies' combat AI. (When enemies attack, they go into 3 types of behavior when engaged with your colonists. They try to melee rush, range from the best cover or try to flank your position.)

This defensive hall puts your colonists behind maximum cover while providing the invaders with absolutely none, forcing their ranged units into the flanking behavior which in this case defaults to standing uselessly in full sight banging on doors. You then proceed to shoot down the melee rushers and then picking them off at your leisure.

Once you kill most of them it will trigger a rout, where upon your two colonists (with the highest melee) waiting in the furthest alcove pops out from their hiding spots and trap the remaining raiders.

Should you ever need to move your colonists up and down the hall while the combat is going on, the loopholes should assist in them doing so out of sight.

And should the unthinkable happen and the invaders manage to break through into the loopholes, strategically placed walls and mines should make short work of them.


Having said all this, I've a feeling come the official alpha release, most of this isn't going to work as well. =P Keep that in mind

[salt1219]

@kevlar
I'm impressed, that is a very well thought out strategy.
i had a few ideas of my own that would need testing.  i thought about placing doors out in the open to see if raiders would attack them and if they did i was going to turn them into traps.

[Tynan]

Nice raider funnel Kevlar. An interesting alternative to the waffle funnel, which is the other main degenerate strategy I've been seeing. It'll be a fun design challenge to make a challenge/raid system that makes these setups a bit more dynamic (read, not unbeatable).

[thekillergreece]

If I am not wrong, the more colonists/turrets you got, the more raiders will attack you...Thats all I have seen...

[Eonwulf]

Did I miss my game download at some point? How do I start playing the game?

[OldFilthy]

Nice raider funnel Kevlar. An interesting alternative to the waffle funnel, which is the other main degenerate strategy I've been seeing. It'll be a fun design challenge to make a challenge/raid system that makes these setups a bit more dynamic (read, not unbeatable).

I think when the player has that much control over the fight, and the area they fight in the only way to make it interesting is uneven odds, or creating an event that either forces the player out of their 'bunker' or makes them want to leave their bunker.

Maybe having the AI build a base for the player to assault would probably be better than leaving the player alone to make an uneven battle field. It wouldn't take much, just a few sand bags that the raiders retreat to and decide to camp when they lose maybe 75% of their force rather than waiting till they lose 90%, and if the player ignores them, the surviving raiders try to control the area while avoiding the player camp until more raiders come to fill their numbers up. Leaving the raiders alone means constant threat of larger assaults, and a bigger raider camp to deal with later.

I think this idea has two big plus points, first it lowers the initial bar for success for large camp defence, secondly it forces the player to initiate a fight (albeit on a weakened enemy) but against their defences.

However after saying all that, I don't think this should happen for every raider attack, I'd say one in six or maybe even lower.

I think there should be times when the raiders simply run in steal your food and metal and then make a break for it, only attacking when they meet resistance.

[Technical Ben]

I've recently started a new game on Randy Random with the self imposed challenge of no turrets in the colony. So far I've annihilated a raider force of 15 with only 5 shooters (2 shotguns, 1 M16, 2 Lee-Enfields). It isn't difficult once you start thinking about your colony design in terms of ease of defense, even without turrets.

Here's how I did it. I built my colony underground and with a defensive gauntlet. Like so,
http://tinyurl.com/mg7o83k

Granted, this exploits the Enemies' combat AI. (When enemies attack, they go into 3 types of behavior when engaged with your colonists. They try to melee rush, range from the best cover or try to flank your position.)

This defensive hall puts your colonists behind maximum cover while providing the invaders with absolutely none, forcing their ranged units into the flanking behavior which in this case defaults to standing uselessly in full sight banging on doors. You then proceed to shoot down the melee rushers and then picking them off at your leisure.

Once you kill most of them it will trigger a rout, where upon your two colonists (with the highest melee) waiting in the furthest alcove pops out from their hiding spots and trap the remaining raiders.

Should you ever need to move your colonists up and down the hall while the combat is going on, the loopholes should assist in them doing so out of sight.

And should the unthinkable happen and the invaders manage to break through into the loopholes, strategically placed walls and mines should make short work of them.


Having said all this, I've a feeling come the official alpha release, most of this isn't going to work as well. =P Keep that in mind

If I'm not mistaken, you appear to be replicating Prisoner Cell block H there. Else you have subconscious decisions playing out you did not realize.
Giving the raiders a method for pushing colonists out of defensive positions would be one method of preventing defenses abuse.

A really easy (hopefully) way to achieve this would be to have raiders set fires. Alternatively you could add gas/smoke.

Another dynamic response from the raiders could be to send in dogs/boom rats for close quarters attacks (which require a retreat to successfully repel currently).

[ocelot113]

I'm getting close to stopping because my people just keep going insane and I can't find an explanation as to why. It says that dead bodies need to be buried and it needs to be clean, so I keep 1 person cleaning and hauling only but they still go nuts.

Any ideas?

[Scelestic]

Ya.. Owch. I can't even get a proper base going.. 2nd Raider Attack always just kicks my butt.

[Zorbane]

I'm getting close to stopping because my people just keep going insane and I can't find an explanation as to why. It says that dead bodies need to be buried and it needs to be clean, so I keep 1 person cleaning and hauling only but they still go nuts.

Any ideas?

Do you have a grave for the dead bodies?

[Pendryn]

I think when the player has that much control over the fight, and the area they fight in the only way to make it interesting is uneven odds, or creating an event that either forces the player out of their 'bunker' or makes them want to leave their bunker.

Maybe having the AI build a base for the player to assault would probably be better than leaving the player alone to make an uneven battle field. It wouldn't take much, just a few sand bags that the raiders retreat to and decide to camp when they lose maybe 75% of their force rather than waiting till they lose 90%, and if the player ignores them, the surviving raiders try to control the area while avoiding the player camp until more raiders come to fill their numbers up. Leaving the raiders alone means constant threat of larger assaults, and a bigger raider camp to deal with later.

I think this idea has two big plus points, first it lowers the initial bar for success for large camp defence, secondly it forces the player to initiate a fight (albeit on a weakened enemy) but against their defences.

However after saying all that, I don't think this should happen for every raider attack, I'd say one in six or maybe even lower.

I think there should be times when the raiders simply run in steal your food and metal and then make a break for it, only attacking when they meet resistance.

Another solution, which would actually be amazing, is having certain raiders attack with tunneling equipment that can knock through a single solid block in a matter of seconds and a wall block in a few more. This would eliminate any ultimate defense and the AI would want to do this as it would naturally be considered flanking.

[ticktockbent]

The only time I've had real trouble is when events conspire to screw up my planned defenses.

Eclipse followed by a solar flare knocks out all of my power, everyone is miserable due to a long time eating raw food in the dark. Raiders attack equipped with frag grenades and other explosives. Things like that.

The game is a lot of fun though, I'm enjoying the challenge. I guess thats the part of my brain that loves Dwarf Fortress talking.

[ocelot113]

I'm getting close to stopping because my people just keep going insane and I can't find an explanation as to why. It says that dead bodies need to be buried and it needs to be clean, so I keep 1 person cleaning and hauling only but they still go nuts.

Any ideas?

Do you have a grave for the dead bodies?

Yeah, I figured it out. It has to be well lit and the potted plants are a must I guess. I do perfectly fine in my own room without lights on or a bush, so didn't think it'd be important.

Back the the original post though. The raiders are SO much better than most settlers at combat, especially early on when you are limited with people. Also, explosives HAVE to be toned down. Without using door glitches and all, they just mow down your entire town and never run out. I'd say limit explosives, 3 grenades, 5 Molotov's, etc. Never ending grenades is so op for attacking and almost useless for defense as you will be blowing the crap out of all your stuff.

This also brings me to doctors. No one needs a PhD to feed someone in a bed. That Is an unreasonable limitation to the settlers. Where as there have been many times that my guys are injured in a fight but I pull through with one guy. The only one left can't be a doctor, so I just restart. They can bring them to the bed but just let them starve to death. Most of the time the guy that's left has no social because they tend to be the better fighters, so I can't recruit and that's GG.

I get you want to make the roles matter they just need some major tweaking to not be game ending, but instead optimizers of your colony (personally I think they should have "perks" for being able to do a skill as opposed to making the game impossible to progress). The current spiral of GG is less fun than frustrating. I don't feel rewarded at all for surviving a fight because I can't pick back up, but just have to restart.

[ticktockbent]

I do perfectly fine in my own room without lights on or a bush, so didn't think it'd be important.

You don't live on an alien planet where a bad thunderstorm can burn down your whole colony, or a sniper team of raiders might randomly show up and shoot you while you're gardening. Please don't try to draw a parallel between your safe bedroom and a room on a colony on an alien world full of danger.

[Bodog999]

In Alpha 3 I have the same problem first there comes 1 pirate raider or 3 tribe members but then, I get 3-7 pirate raiders or about 9+ tribe members in the second raid