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Author Topic: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?  (Read 5642 times)

eataTREE

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2018, 04:17:51 PM »

FWIW, I have 100+ hours of play logged in the 0.19 branch, and I think you're the Procedurally Generated Sandbox Gaming Jesus to the Adams Brothers' John the Baptist. You could slap 1.0 on it and call it released and I'd be thrilled.

/fanboy
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Koek

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2018, 04:32:29 PM »


Please take into account the fact that most of all modder community can't work on mods. Changes negatively affect on the work of mods, that simply dont work after the next update. And who has already updated regret about it. Like, recompiling and add changes to mods every week...

Well, to be honest, mods don't have a place in the phase of finetuning the vanilla game. If you cannot play without mods, stick to the latest stable update and don't join a regularly updated beta product. Those who create and use mods for these updates should either accept a larger workload of staying up to date or find some patience and wait for the final release.
A developer should not have to keep mods in mind besides creating a solid base for modders to work with.

Cheers :)
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skyarkhangel

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2018, 04:47:29 PM »

Well, to be honest, mods don't have a place in the phase of finetuning the vanilla game. If you cannot play without mods, stick to the latest stable update and don't join a regularly updated beta product. Those who create and use mods for these updates should either accept a larger workload of staying up to date or find some patience and wait for the final release.
A developer should not have to keep mods in mind besides creating a solid base for modders to work with.

Cheers :)

This is not quite the usual for modders, some of us do RimWorld mods for 3y+ already. Players request to update mods, but can't while game in constantly changes. So, yep, we get used to the new realities.
I rather see that main developer harried with the release notification and the game is not yet ready.
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InstantAli3n

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2018, 04:50:22 AM »

Tynan you are fantastic. Knowing that you really actually try to get into the mindset and understand the players point of view makes me so happy. There's a lot of feedback I want to give but I feel like it wouldn't be understood or relevant or I just have anxiety about sharing it. I'm hesitant to give an opinion on something because even with a lot of work trying to draw a picture of what I'm thinking in someone else's head, I feel like it's a waste of time since the majority probably won't get it and disagree which ruins any chance I have of making an impact.

I get so stuck on sorting and formatting my own feedback too. I have issues writing so I have to go back, restructure, trim, and edit things before posting to ensure I don't drown my own message in detail (like right now!)

I've made several attempts to post feedback since I've been following EVERY change and in the end posted nothing.

Tynan.... would it be ok for me to PM you feedback directly, including my opinions?
Sorry, I have a -10 Mood Anxiety trait.
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Tynan

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2018, 05:19:05 AM »

Yes you're welcome to pm feedback :)
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Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

dogui

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2018, 07:59:38 AM »

Tynan I would pay my Rimworld copy two or three times if this would help you to never stop developing this game.
I suppose many others agree with me.
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Nydjo

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2018, 10:48:23 AM »

Tynan I would pay my Rimworld copy two or three times if this would help you to never stop developing this game.
I suppose many others agree with me.
+1
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skyarkhangel

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2018, 12:09:45 PM »

Tynan I would pay my Rimworld copy two or three times if this would help you to never stop developing this game.
I suppose many others agree with me.
+1

I bought RimWorld 5 times on steam. 4 as a gift to friends.
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Spinkick

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2018, 09:45:35 PM »

If this game goes subscription based, I would buy
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Morbleue

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2018, 03:40:43 PM »

Morbleue I wish you'd post in the 1.0 thread with some specifics about specific issues that bother you.

Apologies Tynan - I do not post much - and I avoid the spotlight of the main threads - I am sorry for not posting there, and just posting here this very message.

I am generally part of the "silent player base". I don't do polemics, don't want to be noticed, ... don't try to win any argument. Should something, still, as you wrote, "bothers me" - the verb is probably too hard- after release, I simply download a mod, or code a mod for myself or share. Thanks for being so mod friendly in Rimworld by the way... :) 

From what you wrote here I'm having trouble matching your words to things in the game in a way that can be addressed by a design change. Basically I don't understand what you're referring to. [...], except for one stockpile consolidation loop AI bug which is easy to get around (draft/undraft) until we fix it. Is there another major bug?

This is a very annoying bug from a user perspective. Especially after long playing hours. All AI or game response bugs that I noticed have been flagged by now in the main thread. I test played on the build 1979-ish iirc. I did not play with the later versions. I am very positive that all is fixed/being fixed. All cool. :)

"raids and ally help call changes"? Ally help was totally useless in B18. Now it's like 4x more powerful than B18, not sure what you mean, it should be way better than previously. Some players reported it as OP.

I will not comment on this one. Player experiences might differ. I have passed 1000 hours of Rimworld and mostly play on Cassandra Extreme. Useless on B18 - No, just disposable fodder: I will simply mention that a typical strategy among the veteran players is to call tribal ally when facing a late game mechanoids raid of 20+. Timed properly and with a bit of kiting you can "lure away" the second wave of slower mechanoids (wounded) while you reset your traps after the healthy scythers crashed on it, this has been since I play in Alpha 14. And got more powerful with the changes on mortar accuracy and types of shells as 3-4 volleys would score kills. Generally the loss of reputation was ok, I had a very different experience in B19.

"additional grindfest for late game resources (spaceship)"? It's cheaper than before AFAIK; I was just soliciting feedback about this specifically in the unstable build thread and people seem to think it's okay... but I want more feedback. I was planning on making it a bit lighter in advanced components.

This one sorry but I strongly disagree, and feel strongly about this one. Probably this is the point I feel the strongest about in the latest few betas. And will therefore allow myself to comment in length. Apologies if I dont chose the right words or it reads harshly, I am simply trying to explain my experience and try to be helpful... The total game time cost of the spaceship components has artificial inflated and has been thrown out of balance. The time it takes to produce the advanced components with two workbenches with 2 -24h shifts for a late game colony of 12+ pawns takes 8-10 hours real hours of the player time at maximum vanilla speed. Launching the spaceship, on year 3-4 became an MMO type grind: a mindless chore - if something too big comes while the pawns do it,  I can just empty the base and come back a few days later when the threat leave - but I have to watch the pawns produce the components for 8-10 hours as well as pray the RNG gods that I ll get that uranium/special metals...  It was not like that a few betas back. Has been creeping in and this for me is not cool as a change in vanilla. Again no drama, no reason for me to complain or post. I can mod it with a few lines of code. If you consider making it more light weight - I would suggest you roll back the changes that the "AI component" spawns again from 50% of the psychic ships and that this "AI component" needs to be upgraded with a risk of failure. While at the same time making the production of advanced components much quicker.

"more and more mood debuffs/combat punishment/artificial block" I can't think of any atm... What specifically?

Most of them are well documented in the main thread. Debuffs - in B19 more debuffs across the board when you look at effective play in the early game, especially for tribal starts as they construction of basic furniture is gravely tech/mat hampered - I am thinking of XMLing the early colony mood buff by 5 for the first 20-30days to make the early game less punishing on higher diff. Combat punishment - is well documented that you lose limbs much more quickly in B19 in an *un*realistic way.

Artificial blocks: see advanced component above for spaceship for the main pain point. Also annoying blocks: pawn recruiting is becoming super slow (in theory is easier to recruit, after the "break", in practice lower percentage to recruit in B19, higher percentage of evasion since a few betas, when they evade, higher percentage to lose limbs in B19, coupled with the code that caps the slaves purchases on the merchants for richer colonies), construction level requirements now for pretty much everything since B18 and more generalized in B19, the thresholds feel very artificial.  Again no drama, a drop of XML and can be reversed to B17- levels...

What roleplay with wimp? If we changed it, we made it less harsh. You won't spawn with animals you can't tame, that was a bug, fixed.
Happy the start animal no-tame bug was fixed. I really hated that one when I experienced it.

Regarding starting colonists, some combos were always more desireable like the cannibal cook or the work/walk-speed builder. You could do without these and even on high difficulty fiddle something with a sub-par starting team that made "roleplay" sense. I had once a bunch of 3 wimpy and frail old ladies with a bunch of vicious male cats to flank them as starting pawns. The colony made it to spaceship on Randy Random Extreme. I would not try that in B19 as I experienced it.

Indeed, at higher difficulties, with the B19 I played a few weeks ago, there is now a few clear "meta" taking shape. And outside of meta at high difficulty means no ironman/save scumming or low chance to make it. The most obvious meta starting stat now is: starting pawns: no drugs (or there is a way to deal with addicts now that I missed?), no wimps (combat is more punishing), no slothful on the traits. And on skills: one strong construction with a passion (otherwise you will not be able to build early game and will just be stuck) and one miner to start mining asap (mid game raids are much quicker now and will not make it on time if you have not mined the further nodes also yields). That leaves a choice of only one pawn left probably a multi-tasker. Very far away from 2016 where many were viable starting strategies also in higher difficulty --> https://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/360672137534389267/   
Or my example with the old ladies + cats.

Easy fix to experience a richer non meta start: no need to code, just downgrade the difficulty when the player launches the game, right?

Questing should be way better than B18 since the rewards are better, there's more information on threats, caravans are several times faster, and the entire caravan interface/AI is redone and vastly more efficient...
The problem are not the rewards imho, they are meh - you dont need any legendary to win the game. On lower difficulty it makes more sense to grow and sell 1400 worth of strawberry to buy one animal maddener artifact and mediocre equipment to equip multiple pawns than one big gun or super armor. OK the artifact could be the quest reward, but you get more from a strawberry/cloth trade. On higher difficulties, you simply will not take the risk to have people leaving your base until you have a superkill box - which have been nerfed in B19 isnt it? As the danger in the ancient structure scales crazy with the difficulty, at high diff, opening a it for a few pieces of gear vs 6-10 enemies or a infestation, makes no sense. You generally will wall it off with a stone wall to avoid that a natural event opens it up.

The balance problem with the questing is that they simply spawn way too far for the number of people needed to make it work. My feeling is that the "stealth" mechanisms of the caravans should be pushed further. Like caravan that only have 1-3 people with high handling/shooting and very little gear should be able to travel without any ambush the first 10 tiles around the base. As they know the land. And only start to have risks further. Also the quests should be rethought and doable on all difficulty by a small elite strike force. Currently the best way I found is to have a fodder of alpacas, squirrels, chickens and boars (in the 20s) plus three armored melee behind and just stupidly charge. It works well with minimal losses especially against the scyther prisoner quest, abandon all wounded animals as the map will close itself before you have the time to heal the beasts.

Now what would make questing great? ROLEPLAY! I feel grindy to get legendary uranim longswords that you cannot craft (MMO anyone?) I frankly would prefer to have the mother of one of my key pawns calling for help and going rescue her with a team. Then have a party event firing when she is safe in the map. With some mood buffs before and after. OR have a joint attack against a pirate camp and if we win there is peace. Stuff of the sort. I do quest because I want to experience quests.

Also it would be great to have a mechanisms where our colony can roleplay as real tribals (like have many pawns staying low tech and doing the caravan to the spaceship type win for instance instead of teching up) or as pirates (grabbing stuff and selling slaves on colonies without having to completely destroy them).


Sorry that I have no attachments to back it all up - I was not planning to write here.  Also, I am generally not the kind of guy that goes to forum to play "Mr Entitled", I did not want to sound harsh or negative - I almost deleted my first message before posting. But at the same time, B19 "rebalancing" came as a less finished product with quite a few arguable changes in game mechanics from my perspective. And felt there is quite some work left to strike a better balance especially for the late game. 

Now, there is a lot of positives in B19 like the turret changes, some new techs, UI improvements, caravaning improvement, etc,  I am generally very happy about Rimworld. Thanks Tynan! Good luck with the release! Cheers

Edited typos
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 03:49:46 PM by Morbleue »
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mvargus

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2018, 10:40:29 PM »

Morbleue,

IT seems like you were a bit locked into a few specific strategies and are now tunnel locking on a few strategies that are close enough to your old style to make sense to you.  I noticed what you said, and have a few thoughts.


This one sorry but I strongly disagree, and feel strongly about this one. Probably this is the point I feel the strongest about in the latest few betas. And will therefore allow myself to comment in length. Apologies if I dont chose the right words or it reads harshly, I am simply trying to explain my experience and try to be helpful... The total game time cost of the spaceship components has artificial inflated and has been thrown out of balance. The time it takes to produce the advanced components with two workbenches with 2 -24h shifts for a late game colony of 12+ pawns takes 8-10 hours real hours of the player time at maximum vanilla speed. Launching the spaceship, on year 3-4 became an MMO type grind: a mindless chore - if something too big comes while the pawns do it,  I can just empty the base and come back a few days later when the threat leave - but I have to watch the pawns produce the components for 8-10 hours as well as pray the RNG gods that I ll get that uranium/special metals...  It was not like that a few betas back. Has been creeping in and this for me is not cool as a change in vanilla. Again no drama, no reason for me to complain or post. I can mod it with a few lines of code. If you consider making it more light weight - I would suggest you roll back the changes that the "AI component" spawns again from 50% of the psychic ships and that this "AI component" needs to be upgraded with a risk of failure. While at the same time making the production of advanced components much quicker.



In my experience in B18, it could be a complete pain to build the ship components if you did not have advanced components since they were nearly impossible to purchase and nothing dropped them.  They now drop as part of any mechanoid ship piece and the amount of them required to build the ship has been reduced.  I'm not sure why you think its a huge issue, overall at worst this is a wash.


Quote
Most of them are well documented in the main thread. Debuffs - in B19 more debuffs across the board when you look at effective play in the early game, especially for tribal starts as they construction of basic furniture is gravely tech/mat hampered - I am thinking of XMLing the early colony mood buff by 5 for the first 20-30days to make the early game less punishing on higher diff. Combat punishment - is well documented that you lose limbs much more quickly in B19 in an *un*realistic way.


I'm going to get myself in trouble because after a huge number of games in the unstable build I have to say that I'm not seeing a huge number of lost limbs.  I have actually seen the number of crippling injuries go down, although part of that has been a major change to my playstyle and fighting tactics.  I use heavily armored melee fighters in much higher numbers very aggressively and it works to keep fights short.  They do tend to be rather brutal, but most of my people survive.


Quote
Artificial blocks: see advanced component above for spaceship for the main pain point. Also annoying blocks: pawn recruiting is becoming super slow (in theory is easier to recruit, after the "break", in practice lower percentage to recruit in B19, higher percentage of evasion since a few betas, when they evade, higher percentage to lose limbs in B19, coupled with the code that caps the slaves purchases on the merchants for richer colonies), construction level requirements now for pretty much everything since B18 and more generalized in B19, the thresholds feel very artificial.  Again no drama, a drop of XML and can be reversed to B17- levels...


I personally love the new recruiting system.  It can take a long time to break someone down if they have a high resistance, but the system is much easier to understand and handle.  If you do have a prisoner with a very high resistance you just have to put them in a  luxury resort prison to keep their mood high and have a very high social skill warden to break down the resistance quickly.  I've seen that number drop 1.5 or more each visit so you can get it to go down 3.0 or more every day with a bit of management.  And once the resistance is gone I've never seen a prisoner last more than 4 visits from a 10 skill colonist before they join.

Quote
Regarding starting colonists, some combos were always more desireable like the cannibal cook or the work/walk-speed builder. You could do without these and even on high difficulty fiddle something with a sub-par starting team that made "roleplay" sense. I had once a bunch of 3 wimpy and frail old ladies with a bunch of vicious male cats to flank them as starting pawns. The colony made it to spaceship on Randy Random Extreme. I would not try that in B19 as I experienced it.

Indeed, at higher difficulties, with the B19 I played a few weeks ago, there is now a few clear "meta" taking shape. And outside of meta at high difficulty means no ironman/save scumming or low chance to make it. The most obvious meta starting stat now is: starting pawns: no drugs (or there is a way to deal with addicts now that I missed?), no wimps (combat is more punishing), no slothful on the traits. And on skills: one strong construction with a passion (otherwise you will not be able to build early game and will just be stuck) and one miner to start mining asap (mid game raids are much quicker now and will not make it on time if you have not mined the further nodes also yields). That leaves a choice of only one pawn left probably a multi-tasker. Very far away from 2016 where many were viable starting strategies also in higher difficulty -->


I think this is the one I disagree with the most.  I've done a ton of games, many with naked brutality starts, but also 5 tribal starts and the regular crashlanded starts.  I have regularly started with marginally talented people and made it work.  Heck, I took one "wimp" gave them a sword and allowed them to fight in melee.  They had enough skill to avoid taking hits and proved to be a valuable member of my colony.   Sometimes you have to take risks.


As for the "strong constitution construction".  Never had it, and never needed it.  Its true that the new food poisoning mechanic can be a complete headache if someone fails, but the percentage is low if you make sure you ahve a clean cooking area.  I've had colonies where no one had a cooking skill above 3 and managed to handle the occasional food poisoning incidents the colony suffered.


I can understand why you aren't happy, as there are a few changes that left me a bit frustrated, but overall the changes have all be fairly positive.  There are now a lot more choices you ahve to make and some are not simple, but that actually makes the game deeper because now you can't just allow the game to run forever.  You have to decide who, what, where, and when to take risks in order to see the colony rewarded.
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Scavenger

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Re: How close we are to the release of the 0.19 / 1.0 version?
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2018, 03:56:18 PM »

He does seem to have very unusual opinions on things haha. I wouldn't worry about it too much Tynan.

And I have noticed that updates have become much slower and less content heavy, and dared to hope that meant things were coming together quite well and hopefully going to be done soon! (soon to me being a few weeks or less lol).
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