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Author Topic: Mid Game Boredom  (Read 9668 times)

milon

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2015, 11:57:30 AM »

Hmm.... For 60$ i can have Witcher 3 and remember about that Witcher is full game, Rimworld is a Alpha with one guy in team (everyone have a life). If Rimworld in Alpha costs 30$, full game will costs 60$ or more?

I think it will stay at $30:

Well, FYI, there's no plan to raise the price. Just in case that's useful to you.

Listy

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2015, 01:31:13 PM »

Every game will be interesting if you'll do things like this ;D This is why you shouldn't make bionic monsters from psychically weak guys not psychically strong guys :P

Well he wasn't so mentally weak, it's just he'd been sitting in his launch tube (a hole in my defence line to enable rapid pursuit) ready to deploy when the latest enemy raid broke, and then he runs through them lopping off extremities left and right as they flee.
Only he'd not been fed his sandwiches for 24 hours. Pushed him too far.

He more than made up for it a few days later though, when I was on year 4 (or 5) and had crafted a legendary golden statue, and got a Tribal immediate assault event.
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jaeden25

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2015, 07:34:12 PM »

Don't use a killbox, if you exploit the AI then the game will be easy and boring.
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killer117

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2015, 11:30:41 PM »

I mentioned something like this on another thread. my idea was to give the player a little warning, then replace half the map with a crashed and trashed spaceship. this is only for late game players, because itd change the map dramatically and drop a ton f cool stuff and nasty enemies right into ur backyard
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Whats Rimworld without a little cannabilism/ murder/ maniacs/ crazy tribes/ nasty pirates/ nutcase animals/ genocidal robots etc.

akiceabear

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2015, 12:33:55 AM »

I mentioned something like this on another thread. my idea was to give the player a little warning, then replace half the map with a crashed and trashed spaceship. this is only for late game players, because itd change the map dramatically and drop a ton f cool stuff and nasty enemies right into ur backyard

I like the idea of an entirely new class of events starting much later in a colony's development/timeline that push you off of equilibrium. This one sounds fun (but perhaps too dev intensive), but I generally support the spirit of this suggestion.

zodium

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2015, 03:39:49 AM »

If you get sufficiently late game, the raids get so big (29x29) that they fail to place properly. They just drop pod directly into ... everything, everywhere.
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SSS

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2015, 07:06:28 PM »

Don't use a killbox, if you exploit the AI then the game will be easy and boring.

Tynan has acknowledged killboxes as a legitimate strategy, hence the sappers in the upcoming update.
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jaeden25

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2015, 07:49:09 PM »

Don't use a killbox, if you exploit the AI then the game will be easy and boring.

Tynan has acknowledged killboxes as a legitimate strategy, hence the sappers in the upcoming update.

It can be legit and still exploit the limited AI. By building the killbox you are taking advantage of the fact the AI chooses the path of least resistance instead of finding ways to bypass it, building inside mountains is also legit but I think that also makes things really dull especially combined with the killboxes because what do you have to worry about ever? Not much really.

There is almost no point in even having raids in the game the way most people like to play imo, and if people enjoy it then no problem but I don't understand complaints about the game being dull when the same people negate everything that is a threat to your colony i.e sieges, raids, enemies dropping in the base etc. and build the same base design over and over again. It's up to the player to make the game interesting for himself and try new things.
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SSS

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2015, 08:42:14 PM »

Don't use a killbox, if you exploit the AI then the game will be easy and boring.

Tynan has acknowledged killboxes as a legitimate strategy, hence the sappers in the upcoming update.

It can be legit and still exploit the limited AI. By building the killbox you are taking advantage of the fact the AI chooses the path of least resistance instead of finding ways to bypass it, building inside mountains is also legit but I think that also makes things really dull especially combined with the killboxes because what do you have to worry about ever? Not much really.

There is almost no point in even having raids in the game the way most people like to play imo, and if people enjoy it then no problem but I don't understand complaints about the game being dull when the same people negate everything that is a threat to your colony i.e sieges, raids, enemies dropping in the base etc. and build the same base design over and over again. It's up to the player to make the game interesting for himself and try new things.

No, it cannot. In terms of gaming, an exploit is an unusual method of play that results in game behavior unintended by the developer, making it the opposite of "legitimate". A legitimate strategy is different from an abuse of mechanics. Since Tynan has acknowledged killboxes, they can't be considered an exploit any longer (whereas it was a grey area before). Not finding a style of play fun doesn't make it illegitimate, though I do agree that people shouldn't complain as much about the game being dull if they pick all the safest, most efficient strategies every time.

An exploit would be (making this up) somehow forcing a centipede onto a tile that can't be traversed (like water or rock), therefore making it immobile. An actual one that existed in an earlier alpha was building walls around an AI ship part and removing them so the falling thin roof would kill it.

Knowing how the AI behaves and making counter-strategies with that in mind isn't exploitative unless the AI isn't doing what it's supposed to do. Raiders are meant to go the path of least resistance, so using that trait against them is a strategy rather than an exploit. Tynan is just adding more strategies now so killboxes won't be one solution that fixes everything.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 08:44:07 PM by SSS »
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keylocke

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2015, 12:27:43 AM »

besides, "open bases" tend to abuse the way that the AI isn't very good at navigating maze-like internal structures, and then shooting at the enemies opportunistically while they are too busy humping at walls to notice.

it also takes advantage of the same tactics as depriving the enemy of LOS (line of sight) by using chokepoints and corners, same as any other killbox.
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akiceabear

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2015, 12:36:58 AM »

Quote
besides, "open bases" tend to abuse the way that the AI isn't very good at navigating maze-like internal structures, and then shooting at the enemies opportunistically while they are too busy humping at walls to notice.

it also takes advantage of the same tactics as depriving the enemy of LOS (line of sight) by using chokepoints and corners, same as any other killbox.

I tend to prefer limited turrets because it forces use of pawns, which I think makes the story more engaging. Sometimes I use a kill box, other times an open base, but try to avoid turret spamming. That bias aside, this is a good point on how open bases also game the AI.

zodium

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2015, 03:53:01 AM »

How do you even build a killbox that stands up to an end-game mechanoid raid in vanilla? I have an absolutely insane setup, but a 29x29 block of mechanoids still has so many inferno cannon-wielding centipedes with a billion HP that I literally can't seem to fit enough turrets within the turret range.
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Adamiks

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2015, 05:15:12 AM »

How do you even build a killbox that stands up to an end-game mechanoid raid in vanilla? I have an absolutely insane setup, but a 29x29 block of mechanoids still has so many inferno cannon-wielding centipedes with a billion HP that I literally can't seem to fit enough turrets within the turret range.

You need to build something like this:

-----------------------
I    ----------------    I
I                             I
I                             I
I                             I
I                             I
L  ______________ L

I,L,-=Walls
_=Turrets and/or walls

Everyone in the killbox will be in your turrets range.
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zodium

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2015, 05:32:45 AM »

How do you even build a killbox that stands up to an end-game mechanoid raid in vanilla? I have an absolutely insane setup, but a 29x29 block of mechanoids still has so many inferno cannon-wielding centipedes with a billion HP that I literally can't seem to fit enough turrets within the turret range.

You need to build something like this:

-----------------------
I    ----------------    I
I                             I
I                             I
I                             I
I                             I
L  ______________ L

I,L,-=Walls
_=Turrets and/or walls

Everyone in the killbox will be in your turrets range.

In my Glittertech game, I've had end-game mechanoid raids take down my 300k HP primary blast door standing in the middle of a killbox like that while a 20 Construction colonist repaired it from inside, and had to defend room to room. The mechanoids are still vanilla, but I'm not sure if Glittertech ups the maximum raid size.

Besides that, drop pod-based raids often fail to deploy properly due to lack of space, so I'll get as much as 20-30 dropped directly into my mountain base.
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Adamiks

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Re: Mid Game Boredom
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2015, 05:46:05 AM »

I'm working on mod that will enhance vanilla mechs. Because lack of time i've created only some "fixes", no weapons etc. but this mod is playable. In general mechs will can't land into your base, ship part crash chance is reduced to 1.0 and i added more "raid groups" so now you will can have only scythers/centipedes and scythers are more common than centipedes (because for me scythers are weakest).

[attachment deleted due to age]
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