Gourmand seems unneccarily bad

[bobucles]

The pyro needs a babysitter.  For some reason I find this less annoying.

The reason is because you can minimize the damage a pyro does without hurting anyone. Babysitting costs extra labor but it's manageable in all but the most doomed of colonies (in which case it becomes extra hilarious). The only way to stop a gourmand from doing damage to your food supply is to send his fat ass rolling on the floor.

When the primary defense against the fat kid is to beat him senseless, it probably hits home too hard for some. 

[Davetlow]

I think it's the stuff the damages my defensive capability per value makes me very disappointed in the pawns.  I mean wimpy and nonviolent are really annoying.  Enemy pawns are coming to enslave them and they're too much of snowflakes to defend themselves.  Still, I do generally take all comers, I just bad mouth them when they're all needy little bitches that can't take care of themselves.  It also grates on me when I need to have another pawn clean their bedroom for them before I have enough pawns to have a cleaner.  Thus, fat, eats a lot, and starving which makes them less useful in defense apparently really rattles my cage, when I thought I would just have to feed them more food, they're actually more like wimpy...  unless they're defending the kitchen, lol.

[Anastasia]

I picked up a gourmand.  He starved to death beating out a flashstorm fire, another pawn was at malnourished minor.  He died while she was cooking his food.  While I did note he got hungry faster as his mechanic, I did not foresee how difficult that would make him to use properly.  I think if he would just eat sooner than necessary and maybe pick up more food than necessary for .05 nutrition stuff it would be more sensible than being a fatty who gets malnourished without food and then passes out.  I just want to make sure this is what is actually intended by the trait.  Gourmand raiders are going to be going down on the way to the front door.  I mean the chicks overeat, or they used to, by eating a meal but only having room for a tiny bit.  And it's fine, I guess, how it is, but it's a lot more serious of a trait than it sounds in the description, though, again, the mechanic is described properly, I think.

i deifnetly dont think it's worse than pyro, pyro is probably the single worst one ever atleast for me since i tend to make large spread out villages out of wood in forests because i dont really liek min/maxing stuff and just do what feels natural or fun, which usually ends up getting me killed...anyway i feel like it should have some kind of benefit, like maybe they make better food(like it never/rarely gets poisoned) or they make food faster or both, and maybe instead of eating more they will get a mood debuff if they eat anything less than a fine meal or something

I just have someone walk around with the pyro and put out the fires and their brake rarely lasts very long.  It does occasionally cause a major problem during a stress situation.  Gourmands are certainly not the same dead weight as nonviolent or wimp, but it's bad and they're expensive, too.  The math is, btw, a gourmand goes 7.5 hours before hunger from full and the pawns you're used to do ~11.2 hrs.  A difference that doesn't matter, really, if they research or make food and that stuff is next to the fridge, but if they have to do anything it's seems unusually painful.  So then you gotta remember to feed this fat pawn before he goes out to fight a fire or stand at attention somewhere.  The pyro needs a babysitter.  For some reason I find this less annoying.

as a principel is never let pyros into my colony. the last thing i need is them burning down the hospital after a big raid.

[StormGunner]

Personally I've yet to pick a gourmand for my colonies, but based on what I'm seeing here it seems like
the problem lies in starvation. Now, this trait is obviously meant to be a hindrance but frequent starvation
does seem a bit over the top. So, instead of making the guy hungry faster, make him actually eat more -
as in make his food 'restore' half as much as it would for a normal pawn - so maybe on his lunch break
he's going to grab two meals instead of just one.

To me this feels like sort of a middle ground here, since it will avoid the issue of starving while sleeping,
all the while making the guy consume more food.

[spidermonk]

Personally I've yet to pick a gourmand for my colonies, but based on what I'm seeing here it seems like
the problem lies in starvation. Now, this trait is obviously meant to be a hindrance but frequent starvation
does seem a bit over the top. So, instead of making the guy hungry faster, make him actually eat more -
as in make his food 'restore' half as much as it would for a normal pawn - so maybe on his lunch break
he's going to grab two meals instead of just one.

To me this feels like sort of a middle ground here, since it will avoid the issue of starving while sleeping,
all the while making the guy consume more food.

Straving while sleeping is not an issue, it just annoys some people with message spam.

[Davetlow]

Personally I've yet to pick a gourmand for my colonies, but based on what I'm seeing here it seems like
the problem lies in starvation. Now, this trait is obviously meant to be a hindrance but frequent starvation
does seem a bit over the top. So, instead of making the guy hungry faster, make him actually eat more -
as in make his food 'restore' half as much as it would for a normal pawn - so maybe on his lunch break
he's going to grab two meals instead of just one.

To me this feels like sort of a middle ground here, since it will avoid the issue of starving while sleeping,
all the while making the guy consume more food.

Straving while sleeping is not an issue, it just annoys some people with message spam.

Are you saying you can deal with a gourmand, because I think everyone here is confident in their ability to use a gourmand, this is more about if the trait could be or should be improved.  You think it's just about right, that he should starve even faster or maybe it could be adjusted so he eats more but doesn't starve? 

It's like I need to point out that this threat isn't really about people not being able to use the pawn.

[cultist]

It's a pretty bad trait, and it doesn't even make sense... you don't need to eat more because you have refined taste.

A much more sensible take on the trait would be double bonus or penaly from meals - gourmands would really hate eating nutrient paste, but they'll go through hell and back for you as long as there's a lavish meal waiting for them at the end of the day. Maybe even add -5 for eating simple meals, because it's too bland for them. This means a bigger demand on the player to have varied resources, but doesn't drain any extra resources by default.

[StormGunner]

It's a pretty bad trait, and it doesn't even make sense... you don't need to eat more because you have refined taste.

A much more sensible take on the trait would be double bonus or penaly from meals - gourmands would really hate eating nutrient paste, but they'll go through hell and back for you as long as there's a lavish meal waiting for them at the end of the day. Maybe even add -5 for eating simple meals, because it's too bland for them. This means a bigger demand on the player to have varied resources, but doesn't drain any extra resources by default.

As mentioned earlier, you are confusing gourmand and gourmet. Gourmand means glutton.

[glob]

As mentioned earlier, you are confusing gourmand and gourmet. Gourmand means glutton.

Then why not call this trait "glutton"? Gourmand is a French loanword, and it is loaned not just in ENglish but in other languages too. In French it's primary meaning is the one who loves good food and enjoys eating as a pleasure. I believe for most people in the word this word means exactly this, not "the piggy who overeats".

I believe this trait was supposed to imitate exactly the French meaning.

[AileTheAlien]

IMO, there could be two distinct negative traits for food. One for the over-eater, and one for the person who needs higher-quality food.

[StormGunner]

I believe this trait was supposed to imitate exactly the French meaning.

You are certainly free to believe whatever you like, but the english meaning of the word gourmand means glutton, more specifically towards food. That means the person enjoys eating more food or eating more often, not necessarily "extremely good food". This is reflected by the way the game behaves, i.e. the pawn eats more often.
It's quite clear to me the intention behind it, that is why I'm offering an alternative way of displaying the characteristics of the behavior without the "game breaking" issue discussed by the OP by focusing on the "eats more" aspect rather than on the "more often" one.

[Drewski]

For what it's worth, I'm finding gourmands become trivial in the mid game, when you can schedule less sleep time and not be destroyed by a couple of binges. It's become my least-favorite starting trait but later I'd rather have one than a slowpoke or depressive.

[Limdood]

My preference would be gourmand as a "bad" trait, but with benefits:

- keep food binges
- +25% hunger decay (instead of 50%)
- cooking passion (no skill boost) and enabled regardless of backstory (or disable gourmand for no cooking backstories)
- "green thumb" style mood boost from cooking meals
- increased mood from fine/lavish meals, increased mood penalty from nutrient paste/raw food, conflicts with ascetic

The gains (guaranteed cooking passion, mood gain from cooking, high happiness with good food) would almost balance the drawbacks (food binges can cause death during raids!, 25% hunger rate would reduce the starving while routine sleeping, but starving while injured, gut wormed, or drafted is still a likely possibility, and don't let him eat raw food!)

I feel that would make it a bad trait (i classify any trait that can cause a break without low mood as bad), but would let you take advantage of the supposed "upsides" of being a gourmand more easily, and it would make sense that a foodie would be quite content with good food and getting to cook a lot.

[RicRider]

If a gourmand starves to death in his or her sleep the correct response is, 'Hallelujah!'

[bobucles]

Another option for gourmand is to push up their hunger thresholds, so that they get unhappy over not eating much more quickly.