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Author Topic: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad  (Read 1730 times)

Davetlow

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2018, 11:40:18 PM »

I am really happy to have brought this lengthy discussion of the trait "gourmand" to Ludeon Studios Forums, and I think we had a good discussion here, and we've at least decided that gourmand is really bad to horrible, especially on a starting character and considered whether or not this seems appropriate to us, not just if it's survivable, because most of the commenters seem to clearly think they can deal with it.  I am happy we came to some general consensus and hope some developers give this a look and get some insight as to what people think of this new feature.  We're at a long 3 pages if not just starting 4 now, so that's really a good amount to read about gourmand.  I hope it is also helpful for this great games development.
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Babuchas

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2018, 10:51:09 AM »

Is it normal that they go on food binge even when att 90-100 mood? I thought that was just if on low mood, but 15 days into the game a gourmand pawn has gone on food binge 3-4 times, always att 90-100 mood. Is that normal?
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vzoxz0

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2018, 11:08:00 AM »

Gourmand is a perk I consider along the same lines as Pyromaniac. I will never accept a colonist with that perk. It's totally worthless.
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5thHorseman

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2018, 12:43:19 PM »

Is it normal that they go on food binge even when att 90-100 mood? I thought that was just if on low mood, but 15 days into the game a gourmand pawn has gone on food binge 3-4 times, always att 90-100 mood. Is that normal?
Sadly, yes it is normal. 3-4 times in 15 days is excessive but they can food binge at any time. Pyros can light fires at any time, too.

It's one of the more annoying things about already annoying taits.
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Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

Davetlow

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2018, 03:37:51 PM »

Yeah, it's like they're more likely to do it if they are in distress, but can elect to set fires/food binge as a recreational activity.  I don't know but assume they choose to do so less if there are more fun things to do available.
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Anastasia

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2018, 12:57:41 AM »

Yeah, it's like they're more likely to do it if they are in distress, but can elect to set fires/food binge as a recreational activity.  I don't know but assume they choose to do so less if there are more fun things to do available.
probably the best thing about gourmand colonists and argueably a redeeming quality is most of the time they mental break they have is a food binge, and not, say, murderous rampage, liek ther was one time where i had 3 colonists at a start, we got shot up and i sent one heavily injured colonist(incapable of doctoring) to rescue two downed allies, well she bled enough that she was downed too, then one of the original downed got up, and carried her back, then he bled to down, and the heaviliy injured girl recovered enough to get back up, and i sent her to save the other downed person, our doctor, so whe went to out doctor, picked them up, then had a murderes rage mental break and cut off our doctors head. so i had 2 colonists bleeding to death, one was downed from serious pain and had 3 medical, and one was bleeding out rapidly and incapable of doctoring, and berserk. if she was a gourmand our doctor might have lived and all that owuld have happend was she would have ate a corpse.
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RicRider

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2018, 11:49:13 AM »

Gourmands continue to amuse me to no end. On temperate forest and boreal forest maps I've never really had an issue with them (abundance of food) but for the first time I tried playing on a tundra map. Well you can guess that my pretty gourmand who I had so much hopes for would become the boyfriend of my main dude, she barely lasted three months in the colony. She was basically eating all the food and on Decemberary 1st I had to make the hard decision to send her on a caravan to nowhere to the north pole. So yeah gourmand is pretty crappy when food is low but otherwise it's just like having two people! I think this game is pretty good at making you take hard decisions, that's for sure...
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Third_Of_Five

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2018, 02:16:18 PM »

The high frequency of food binges wouldn't be a problem for me if they didn't also CONSTANTLY eat food. 150% hunger rate just destroys your food supply. It's not so much "annoying" as just a burden on the well being of your colony.

inb4 5thHorseman does more apologetics for how gourmand is "normal" by referencing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYHDj2sB-rc

Bickering aside though, the above video is a pretty accurate real-world example of what gourmand effectively is. And by extension why it sucks.
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Syrchalis

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2018, 06:12:10 PM »

The likelyhood of foodbinges depends on mood. At max mood you will get one every 50 days only.

The upside of the trait, aside from +4 cooking, is that they can ONLY get food binge mental breaks. So if they are unhappy they will just eat a bunch of food and that's it. No beserk, tantrum or catatonic break for 3 days.

This is an upside many forget about this trait as well as pyro. Their breaks are very predictable because they can only get one type. Both are pretty easy to handle.

Though the hunger rate could be a bit lower, specifically because they don't have a higher "maximum hunger". I am developing a race that has 150% hunger rate by default and I'm not having any issues, mainly because they can have 150% total hunger (like some larger animals can).
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5thHorseman

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2018, 08:44:32 PM »

inb4 5thHorseman does more apologetics for how gourmand is "normal" by referencing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYHDj2sB-rc
You seem to have misunderstood me. I never said it was good. I said it's what happens.

It's also normal that when people drive though red lights without looking that they hit other cars. That doesn't make it right or good or happy.
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Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

Davetlow

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2018, 11:45:39 PM »


The upside of the trait, aside from +4 cooking, is that they can ONLY get food binge mental breaks. So if they are unhappy they will just eat a bunch of food and that's it.

This is not true.  The pawn form the OP as detailed had gone on a mental break insulting, though he was abrasive as well as gourmand.  I don't recall specifically any other kind of mental break he had, I would be surprised, though, if it does anything other than make food binges way more likely.
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bobucles

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2018, 01:48:55 PM »

Food binges happen on their own, no matter how happy or sad the gourmand is. It doesn't do anything about what type of mental breaks the pawn gets. The only benefit is they can't break if they're already insane.
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Syrchalis

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2018, 03:20:58 PM »

Food binges happen on their own, no matter how happy or sad the gourmand is. It doesn't do anything about what type of mental breaks the pawn gets. The only benefit is they can't break if they're already insane.
This is just wrong. Look at the XML at least. Gourmands can ONLY have food binges as mental breaks - except if they are also pyro/chemical x, but in that case you really don't want the pawn.

They do get food binges randomly, without having to be in mental break territory, but it happens more often at lower mood than higher. It's a linear function from 0% to 100% and 0 days to 50 days MTB. This is the exact same mechanic that makes pyros and chemical interest pawns have random mental breaks and they have similar curves.
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AileTheAlien

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2018, 09:24:02 PM »

Look at the XML [...] Gourmands can ONLY have food binges as mental breaks
If that's the case, then this should be displayed in the game. I had no idea that they could not get other types of mental breaks, and that's a very useful trade-off, which would make me take gourmands (or pyros, if they have the same mechanic).
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vzoxz0

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Re: Gourmand seems unneccarily bad
« Reply #59 on: September 27, 2018, 05:34:23 AM »

Confine all pyromaniacs to a fire-proof research lab, equip them with a Nutrient-dispenser that has a firefoam popper behind it (or several), ???, profit! Maybe leave them a small outdoors area they can look at the sky from, to avoid that cooped-up effect.
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