Trap costs in 0.19

[bbqftw]

Small scale is how this game is intended to be played as raid point scaling has a component which is effectively represented by wealth^2.

It's not just traps, practically every fair defense loses effectiveness as enemy scaling increases. Exceptions being mortars, doom/trips and <secret degenerate killbox strat which will not be described here>

Tynan is gonna throw a fit if he sees that statement about point scaling, considering he's already said more than once that more than just wealth goes into strength factor for events and raids.

The point about strategies eventually losing effectiveness with scaling isn't necessarily wrong though, but that's because this game isn't designed around infinite playtime on a single save. You're expected to either die or leave the planet currently, how you die depends on how beefy your hardware is(not as big as an issue since 1.9 actually has a cap to how high the point scaling can be). Playing for those 10+ ingame years is doable, but the game's progression loop and content during that loop really isn't built for playthroughs that long and it really shows after the 3-4th year.

I personally had no issues with trap costs in my 1.9 playthrough, but I enjoy mountainous/large hill biomes because they're ore-rich and easy access to stone. Obviously this is going to change depending on the biome you start in, for better or worse.

A rectangle's area is dependent on width. If your consistent response to this fact is "well there are other factors governing its area" one might make some judgments..

There is only one term that is completely wealth independent, and it rarely contributes more than 15% to raid point strength under normal playthroughs.

[ashaffee]

The trap method is a very obvious way to transfer safety into wealth. Those who don't wish to endanger their colonist have the option to buy/farm the material to support defenses that don't require hands on approach. It is possible to have a playthrough with basically all non-violence colonist.

The flip side is also true. You can succeed with never using traps in normal raids. There is also the happy middle ground where you have a primary fighting area with cheap defenses. Your colonist get injured or indanger of getting run over you can fall back to your expensive defense area.

[JimBeam]

i think the new trap systems allows for interesting situational plays

the building time makes it possible (for skilled builders) to set up the traps near the enemy, luring them in, retreating and killing off the slowed down meele fighters

if they prepare before the attack thats easy to set up

if they attack immediately  and are further away its possible near the base

this allows very interesting gameplays early and mid-game by using the map

You can actually reinstall traps, so just build them in your base and move them into the line of attack when you need 'em.

huh.. yeah you are right!

makes it almost too easy

i mean rushing towards the enemy and build traps feels kind of sneaky and exciting

throwing down pre-made traps is "too" easy

[giltirn]

throwing down pre-made traps is "too" easy

I agree, the cheap trap costs have sucked most of the fun out of strategic laying of traps. I have advocated increasing the upfront cost of traps and reducing their maintenance costs, which would encourage a more strategic playstyle and also move the burden of deciding how many traps you can support to your current number of resources and not the rate at which you accumulate them, the former of which is a much more visible and reliable figure.

Edit: Oops, I missed the 'pre-made' part of your comment. I actually quite like being able to move them about. If this was coupled with a more significant upfront cost it would make strategic deployment more important, adding a nice layer of forethought to the process.

[vampiresoap]

It's actually not that bad. I set a grow zone for wood, and if I run out of wood, I'll just rely on the turrets. I build the traps whenever I get enough wood.

[giltirn]

It's actually not that bad. I set a grow zone for wood, and if I run out of wood, I'll just rely on the turrets. I build the traps whenever I get enough wood.

In my boreal forest playthrough I found this strategy hampered by the long growing times, long planting times and the short, 20-day, growing season of my biome. It is year 4 now and I have only just harvested my first tree farm. In the very long term I could probably expand out my production to cover expenses but it would require a serious time investment and by that point I will have long-ago had to switch to more powerful traps or IEDs as even now the raider's armor usually allows them to trigger 2, 3 or more traps before they are brought down. I finally have deep drilling so I'm going to see what kind of rate I can pull up stone blocks.

[vampiresoap]

It's actually not that bad. I set a grow zone for wood, and if I run out of wood, I'll just rely on the turrets. I build the traps whenever I get enough wood.

In my boreal forest playthrough I found this strategy hampered by the long growing times, long planting times and the short, 20-day, growing season of my biome. It is year 4 now and I have only just harvested my first tree farm. In the very long term I could probably expand out my production to cover expenses but it would require a serious time investment and by that point I will have long-ago had to switch to more powerful traps or IEDs as even now the raider's armor usually allows them to trigger 2, 3 or more traps before they are brought down. I finally have deep drilling so I'm going to see what kind of rate I can pull up stone blocks.

Yeah, the traps are only there to soften them anyways. You shouldn't rely on them too much. It's nice to have them, but it's not the end of the world if you don't. Also, I wouldn't recommend stone traps if you have a choice (not living in extreme biomes) because it takes a super long time to build stone traps. Like 10 times as long as building wooden traps, and the damage difference is not that far apart.

[giltirn]

For anyone interested, FrozenSnowFox has released a nice looking mod "[FSF] Better Spike Traps" that reduces build cost by 2x and removes the distance limitation. This seems a lot better balanced to me.