New wealth system in B19

[bbqftw]

B19 no longer has a time ramp factor past 40 days.

With tribal you are right, there  is definitely more setup eff required early game.

[vampiresoap]

So the game is not gonna get infinitely harder as time goes on?

[Wanderer_joins]

No, the adaptation is capped and the game only gets harder based on colonists and wealth.

The wealth system with the 14000 buffer is not really significant for your main colony, though it's noticeable if you deconstruct ancient ruins. But you can clearly see the difference when you build secundary settlements. Then you've got trained, well equipped colonists on pristine maps with ~8000 building wealth. The result is you get really small raids even on merciless whereas on b18 small mining outposts could be much more challenging to defend. Same on sea ice.

The ancient ruins amount to 5000-8000 wealth in my experience, maybe the 14000 buffer is a bit large and could be slightly reduced.

[BLACK_FR]

Actually the fact that there is no ramp-up and you have first 14k of wealth "raid-free" changes a lot for merciless naked brutality.
Your main goal is to survive plague, make cheap preparations (like 1% health-pemmican) and research all you can with basic research bench. Only after that you cross that threshold, but you cross it prepared, with uber-skilled pawns and all things you can amass without crossing that threshold.
So it makes early-game much more slow and easy.

[vampiresoap]

Are there non cheesing/micro-intensive methods that lower wealth?

[Golden]

Gifting excess to traders who will accept it.  I don't see that as cheesing it.  Perhaps also the drop pod gifting when you have that researched and built.

In my games I just make an effort to not mine or gather food excessively, or anything else that can be worth too much - no large amounts of clothes or blocks or wood or metals or anything else that I can limit.

[Wanderer_joins]

So it makes early-game much more slow and easy.

It also makes mining outposts easy to defend, even more so late game. It could be more closely tied to your total wealth and add events.

[zizard]

Are there non cheesing/micro-intensive methods that lower wealth?

Accidental grenade throwing accidents in the stockpile.

[BLACK_FR]

Are there non cheesing/micro-intensive methods that lower wealth?

It depends on what you mean by cheesy methods. I don't think that getting all your stockpiles of food to less than 10% health is cheesy, for example. You can read my guide for merciless naked brutality in b18.
Main points for wealth management from there:
1. Sell all not crucially needed stuff. Because of exchange rates it can have big effect.
2. Destroy all unused weapons.
3. Keep health of all items below 10% (if health is not affecting their efficiency). That includes furniture.
4. Don't finish items (like apparel for selling) until the time to use them.
5. Don't have excess stock of raw resources that don't have health (like steel).
6. Be very picky with new colonists, they have to be good ones.
7. Use dead man armor (and if you made legendary or masterwork armor yourserlf you should definetly sell it).

I think those 7 rules cover all wealth management there is in the game.

[bbqftw]

I can't emphasize how important destroying dropped raider weapons is, you can easily end up with 20%+ raid point spike from a single raid. It is incredibly time inefficient to smelt them, and you get an additional 20% sell modifier so they aren't worth jack.

In my opinion a differentiator of merciless defense setups is "how many molotov throws disposes of the entire raid"?

[BLACK_FR]

I can't emphasize how important destroying dropped raider weapons is, you can easily end up with 20%+ raid point spike from a single raid. It is incredibly time inefficient to smelt them, and you get an additional 20% sell modifier so they aren't worth jack.

In my opinion a differentiator of merciless defense setups is "how many molotov throws disposes of the entire raid"?

Yes, you definetly should destroy all weapons that are not used. Molotov coctails are bad, grenades are good (ofc with less 10% hp to reduce wealth).

[fecalfrown]

Are there non cheesing/micro-intensive methods that lower wealth?

It depends on what you mean by cheesy methods. I don't think that getting all your stockpiles of food to less than 10% health is cheesy, for example.

I actually consider that VERY cheesy, and resent you for making me aware of it. (only half sarcasm).

What is your opinion for a fix? Tynan appears very aware of the tendency of players to optimize the fun out of a game, and actively takes steps to prevent that. What if item wealth was independent of sell price? Ie. you damage your items to 10% health, they will only sell for 10% health, but still count for full wealth? Then it is less likely to be abused, but punishes players that 'legitimately' had their base raided to [near destruction], but not destroyed.

[5thHorseman]

What is your opinion for a fix? Tynan appears very aware of the tendency of players to optimize the fun out of a game, and actively takes steps to prevent that. What if item wealth was independent of sell price? Ie. you damage your items to 10% health, they will only sell for 10% health, but still count for full wealth? Then it is less likely to be abused, but punishes players that 'legitimately' had their base raided to [near destruction], but not destroyed.

I think food's value should be independent of hit points. Or, nutrition should be dependent on it.

Your food has 10% of its hit points? Well then you need to eat 10 meals now don't you? Have fun optimizing that one.

[bbqftw]

You do realize that  such a system effectively exists for weapons right now (full penalty to item wealth, lowered sell price)? Which is why a key mark of skill on merciless right now is how efficiently you can destroy raid drops.

If you didn't have the knowledge to understand the weaknesses in the game mechanics (in this case, the overwhelming correlation of raid points to wealth proportionate factors), you probably don't have the knowledge to fix them either.

There's a reason strategy discussion is dead on this forum/reddit, and general community skill level is low. Because people know not to talk about interesting strategies, as they will typically be fixed in ways that make the game less skill based.

In any case, 10% is pretty low health for things like mollydrop. Though with blacks pawn count he probably won't ever see a drop pod raid, lol.

Better to switch to food option that requires little to no stockpiling imo but that's an exploit too?

Curious about your base design, black. Space optimization is obviously the key here, curious how you approach it. Do you typically even end up facing sappers in late game?

[fecalfrown]

You do realize that  such a system effectively exists for weapons right now (full penalty to item wealth, lowered sell price)? Which is why a key mark of skill on merciless right now is how efficiently you can destroy raid drops.

If you didn't have the knowledge to understand the weaknesses in the game mechanics (in this case, the overwhelming correlation of raid points to wealth proportionate factors), you probably don't have the knowledge to fix them either.

I'm assuming you're responding to me? Rather than write a condescending response, why don't you offer a solution like I asked for, since I don't have the knowledge.