Which bionic parts help the most in melee encounters?

Started by vampiresoap, September 02, 2018, 10:40:32 AM

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vampiresoap

Hi I just wanna ask what are the best bionic parts for melee damage. Like, which parts help you the most during melee fights.

I thought bionic arms would be the obvious answer, but if you are holding a range weapon, do your bionic arms become useless? What about bionic spine? Does it help you take more damage before going down?

I tried reading the wiki and some threads, but I'm still confused as hell. Would you guys please explain this to me in dummy terms? Thanks!

Canute

Yes, if you carry a weapon the bionic arms don't count.

Bionic Arm 12 damage
ArchoTech Arm 14 Damage
Power Claw 18 damage

A second arm/claw increase further the DPS.

Just a hint, the game comes with Developer mode, you can spawn items or straight give them bionic parts.
Need a bit try and error but it is a good way to find useful informations.


Ser Kitteh

I'd argue bionic legs are of far greater importance for any combatant. The ability to rush and reposition trumps pure damage numbers.

erdrik

#3
Quote from: vampiresoap on September 02, 2018, 10:40:32 AM
...
I thought bionic arms would be the obvious answer, but if you are holding a range weapon, do your bionic arms become useless?
...
Whether a ranged or melee weapon, Manipulation effects the Pawn's ability to use the weapon.
It may not increase the damage potential of a ranged weapon, but it will increase the accuracy/chance to hit(including vitals) which will increase the odds that any given attack will land on the upper levels of a given weapon's damage potential.
Basically, More accuracy = chance for higher damage output due to hitting "criticals" (hitting the brain for example)

Off the top of my head, in terms of attack effectiveness the single most important attributes to worry about for any type of combat are:
(in no particular order)
Consciousness, Manipulation, Movement, Sight

AFAIK, Only Consciousness can't be enhanced. The goal is to prevent reductions.

vampiresoap

#4
Quote from: erdrik on September 02, 2018, 12:28:04 PM
Quote from: vampiresoap on September 02, 2018, 10:40:32 AM
...
I thought bionic arms would be the obvious answer, but if you are holding a range weapon, do your bionic arms become useless?
...
Whether a ranged or melee weapon, Manipulation effects the Pawn's ability to use the weapon.
It may not increase the damage potential of a ranged weapon, but it will increase the accuracy/chance to hit(including vitals) which will increase the odds that any given attack will land on the upper levels of a given weapon's damage potential.
Basically, More accuracy = chance for higher damage output due to hitting "criticals" (hitting the brain for example)

Off the top of my head, in terms of attack effectiveness the single most important attributes to worry about for any type of combat are:
(in no particular order)
Consciousness, Manipulation, Movement, Sight

AFAIK, Only Consciousness can't be enhanced. The goal is to prevent reductions.

The wiki only mentions health and sight though...

EDIT: Ah, I take it back. This page clarifies a lot for me :)

https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Melee_Hit_Chance

[attachment deleted due to age]

erdrik

Hmmm, interesting. It says Manipulation doesn't effect melee accuracy.
But it also hasn't been updated since March of 2017.
Now that I think about it, I seem to recall something about Scyther Blades and how they became less effective in the event of poor Manipulation. But I don't recall what the result of that was...

vampiresoap

#6
Quote from: erdrik on September 02, 2018, 01:51:59 PM
Hmmm, interesting. It says Manipulation doesn't effect melee accuracy.
But it also hasn't been updated since March of 2017.
Now that I think about it, I seem to recall something about Scyther Blades and how they became less effective in the event of poor Manipulation. But I don't recall what the result of that was...

I just checked that in game, and it's true. The pawn panel gives you the info.

Apparently the melee hit chance is affected by:
1. Melee Skill
2. Manipulation (100%, up to 150%)
3. Sight (100%, up to 150%)

Consciousness affects everything indirectly, and movement only affects the dodge chance.

erdrik

Quote from: vampiresoap on September 02, 2018, 02:30:23 PM
... and movement only affects the dodge chance.
Don't discount movement speed.
Kiting, falling back/retreating, Baiting and getting into position are also important combat related tactics that general movement speed has an effect on.

vampiresoap

Quote from: erdrik on September 02, 2018, 03:28:12 PM
Quote from: vampiresoap on September 02, 2018, 02:30:23 PM
... and movement only affects the dodge chance.
Don't discount movement speed.
Kiting, falling back/retreating, Baiting and getting into position are also important combat related tactics that general movement speed has an effect on.

Oh yeah, I'm in line with your assessment too. Running faster definitely beats having to stand toe to toe with a megasloth lol. I was just listing all the things that affect melee hit chance.

Panzer

Yeah manipulation not affecting melee was a few versions back when the scyther blade was still ingame, it was a jury-rigged solution to make the blades work until Tynan decided to cut it since there apparently is no elegant solution to that problem.

N0xiety

#10
It seems power claw is very good to be used as a substitute melee defense weapon for your shooters. If tribes with clubs bumrush your guy and he can't shoot his weapon, then he will primarily switch to using the power claws to defend himself. He will still use his weapon to bash and crack bones, but claw usage will be more. Here are the melee damage values with different arms;

These values are with Archotech Eyes installed and 10 melee skill.

Power Claws - Melee DPS: 7.72 / Armor Penetration: %27
Archotech Arms - Melee DPS: 6.32 / Armor Penetration: %21
Bionic Arms - Melee DPS: 5.38 / Armor Penetration: %18
Regular Arms - Melee DPS: 3.52 / Armor Penetration: %12

Power Claws cut and scratch so it also has bleed damage compared to others.

I did some combat tests and power claw is pretty good in combat as a side arm for shooters. Since manipulation doesn't really give any bonus to accuracy over %100, archotech or bionic arms are wasted on shooters. Power claw can be a secondary last resort kind of melee weapon for your shooters. So don't hesitate to put them on if you have some lying around. It is the best self defense available for shooters. Using the bionic or archotech arms on your melee or worker pawns would be much better. For dedicated shooters, they are wasted on them.



Canute

But i wouldn't install them at your pawn's they are primary crafting/cooking at the non-combat time ! :-)



Kirby23590

Don't forget about Bionic Legs and Archotech Legs!

They don't help out in melee combat but they can help out chasing the fleeing enemies with your melee guys and to get out of bad situations! ;)

One "happy family" in the rims...
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AileTheAlien

Also, remember that bionic legs help you catch up to enemies, or to run away!

bobucles

Throwing another vote for the gottagofast crowd. If you can outrun swords, you can shoot them forever.

Improved arms give manipulation, which is absolutely amazing for guns. Instead of missing every shot a low skill gunner will score tons of hits.