Ludeon Forums

Ludeon Forums

  • October 07, 2022, 04:30:39 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: "Taming" mental break with Social skill  (Read 709 times)

Bolgfred

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 315
  • Starship janitor
    • View Profile
"Taming" mental break with Social skill
« on: September 10, 2018, 04:22:35 AM »

The idea:
Similar to self treatment for a doctor, a colonist gains a checkbox "appease other".
With this checkbox active, they will try to interact with mental break characters, similar to recruitment or taming.
The outcoming is dependent on mental break-type and social skill:

A. Critical success: mental break is over relation between pawns increase
B. Success: mental break is over, realation between pawns lowers
C. Failure: mental break continues
D. Critical failure: Mental break get replaced by higher level break (minor to major to extreme)

The reason:
I feel like social skill doesn't have a real effect on the game.

Yes, it increases recruiting chances.
=> You need to wait 8 days instead of 10 until your recruitment succeds, but anyway youre not in a hurry, and even if you are you cannot 'rush' recruitment, as it's unpredictable.
Yes, increases trade Prices.
=> I think this is a 5-10% price change, but anyway I don't care as Trade values doesn't matter too much. Trading is binary: You have too much goods or silver or you have nothing.
Yes, there are Peace talk quests.
=> I used to accept them 0-2 times per game.
No, I never searched for a starting colonist with high social because i said "that's important"
=> Because it isn't

Conclusion:
I think this would be a good way to make social skill much more important, as it can be a live savior in critical situations .... or worsens thing. In every case it's a more active ability instead of a passive nice-to-have.
Furthermore it feels more realistic for me to talk each other down instead of imprisoning each other, which is more of an emergency measure.
Logged
"The earth has only been lent to us,
 but no one has said anything about returning."
-J.R. Van Devil

Limdood

  • Planetologist
  • ****
  • Posts: 1529
  • Survivor
    • View Profile
Re: "Taming" mental break with Social skill
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 01:16:06 PM »

To answer your "reason" - the hospitality mod makes social quite useful, to the point where i often go out of my way to get good social pawns, even if they lack most other skills. (you can recruit from other factions, as well as get faction relation boosts or drops based on how good a time visitor groups have, which is largely determined by social interactions).

The problem is that a high social character effectively makes mental breaks a non-issue in your suggestion.  Grab a medieval lordling with 17 starting social skill....sure he's dead weight most of the time, but the mood system, which the entire game mechanics are based around (EVERYTHING feeds into mood) is is effectively bypassed except for that one pawn.  If i can somewhat reliably end mental breaks when i want, then that means I can live in squalor, feed pawns raw food, work them to exhaustion, starve them to near starving, ignore joy, and have no real problems.  As long as i keep that social pawn happy and skilled, he can talk the other pawns out of their mental breaks, and the catharsis buff will keep them going for a solid day before mr. Social needs to take care of it again.

I may be oversimplifying it a bit, but the point is that the mental breaks were designed to be the last step of punishment for failure to keep your pawns happy (if everything good and bad fits into mood, then the mental breaks being the result of bad mood are the catch-all "punishment" for ALL mismanagement).  Being able to have ANY tool that consistently ends mental breaks needs a good long careful look at the consequences to overall gameplay.  Currently your only 2 tools for mental breaks are arresting a pawn, which may send them berserk and will cause a long negative moodlet (they can be immediately released from jail and rejoin without doing recruiting, but the "i was imprisoned" moodlet on top of whatever caused the initial break means odds of another break are likely) or physically beating up a berserk pawn and hoping you don't kill him (considering he's doing his level best to kill the other colonists). 

Compare your suggestion for ending mental breaks with the only two options that currently exist and you see an immense difference in the risk/reward.  Namely, nothing currently in the game allows player intervention of mental breaks without GUARANTEED minimum of making mood worse.

Maybe, at best, i could see social skill making a non-hostile pawn less likely to go berserk upon being arrested.  This still values social in dealing with breaks, but it uses the existing mechanic, and still poses a hefty drawback even on success...but at least it lets you go and retrieve the sad wanderer who happens to be sad wandering right where those 20 tribal raiders are about to swarm over, and maybe you have the tools to offset the imprisoned mood, but the colonist just happened to dip just barely into minor break and then immediately break, then a low-risk-of-berserk arrest is a great solution, AND still makes you deal with the initial factors that caused the break.
Logged

Bobisme

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
  • I am Bob
    • View Profile
Re: "Taming" mental break with Social skill
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 02:00:42 PM »

When i arrest pawns, i watch the lightning bolt on the 'mental state' pawn as they are carried to the prison, more often than not the arrest will break the mood before they reach the prison cell, i can then release them  and get no debuff.

I like the thought of being able to talk some one of a ledge though, to compensate for the ease in which you could talk someone down from a break is make them more frequent, i barely get any mental breaks though, as limdood said you could ignore the crap hole they live in if you can break the break easy, i have shiny shit everywhere

you need to make a good place to avoid breaks, this skill negates the importance, though, again make em more frequent n i dunno, i like it...
Logged

zgrssd

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: "Taming" mental break with Social skill
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2018, 08:04:53 PM »

The idea:
Similar to self treatment for a doctor, a colonist gains a checkbox "appease other".
With this checkbox active, they will try to interact with mental break characters, similar to recruitment or taming.
The outcoming is dependent on mental break-type and social skill:

A. Critical success: mental break is over relation between pawns increase
B. Success: mental break is over, realation between pawns lowers
C. Failure: mental break continues
D. Critical failure: Mental break get replaced by higher level break (minor to major to extreme)

The reason:
I feel like social skill doesn't have a real effect on the game.

Yes, it increases recruiting chances.
=> You need to wait 8 days instead of 10 until your recruitment succeds, but anyway youre not in a hurry, and even if you are you cannot 'rush' recruitment, as it's unpredictable.
Yes, increases trade Prices.
=> I think this is a 5-10% price change, but anyway I don't care as Trade values doesn't matter too much. Trading is binary: You have too much goods or silver or you have nothing.
Yes, there are Peace talk quests.
=> I used to accept them 0-2 times per game.
No, I never searched for a starting colonist with high social because i said "that's important"
=> Because it isn't

Conclusion:
I think this would be a good way to make social skill much more important, as it can be a live savior in critical situations .... or worsens thing. In every case it's a more active ability instead of a passive nice-to-have.
Furthermore it feels more realistic for me to talk each other down instead of imprisoning each other, which is more of an emergency measure.
There is at least one mod for it:
"Snap Out!"
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1319782555
Logged