Sanguine vs. Iron-Willed

[vampiresoap]

After reading many posts, it seems that most people prefer Sanguine over Iron-willed. But I think it's kind of unfair because based on my experience, Iron-willed characters usually do a lot better on extreme biomes...(which kind of makes sense?) because when they do have a mental break, they rarely become homicidal. They usually just throws a tantrum and just goes right back to work. I think we need to account for that too. I don't really have any data to back me up on this. It's more of a citizen science, but I'm hoping that one of you geniuses can find something that I couldn't. So what do you guys have to say about this topic?

[CasusAmor]

I think Sanguine is preferred because the permanent bonus is extremely helpful in preventing mental breaks, which is a very expensive event to remedy.

[RawCode]

Both traits have exactly same effect on pawn, it's about flavor only.

[vampiresoap]

Both traits have exactly same effect on pawn, it's about flavor only.

Is it though? I've noticed that while it is hard for Sanguine characters to break, but the effects of their mental breaks are usually more devastating. I've seen Sanguine pawns become murderous a couple times, but I've yet seen an Iron-willed pawn doing that.

[RawCode]

confirmation bias

[zizard]

Break thresholds cannot be reduced more than 4% from base so iron willed is terrible except when paired with break increasing traits like neurotic.

[bbqftw]

Without any other mental break affected traits, iron-willed only reduces break thresholds to 1/21/31 (starting from 5/25/35), for a net effect of 4% (out of the 18% stated by the trait). It is much, much worse than it appears.

[zgrssd]

Both traits have exactly same effect on pawn, it's about flavor only.

That is not quite correct, even if it may appear that way on first glance.
Iron Willed "only" ups the Break Threshold.
Meanwhile Sanguine adds permanent mood. That means a high mood (wich triggers inspirations since B18) is easier to aquire.

So Iron Willed could actually be quite a big stronger in total effect, as "Break Threshold" is actually a less intersting value then "permanent mood buff".

[RawCode]

Both traits have exactly same effect on pawn, it's about flavor only.

That is not quite correct, even if it may appear that way on first glance.
Iron Willed "only" ups the Break Threshold.
Meanwhile Sanguine adds permanent mood. That means a high mood (wich triggers inspirations since B18) is easier to aquire.

So Iron Willed could actually be quite a big stronger in total effect, as "Break Threshold" is actually a less intersting value then "permanent mood buff".

context of this thread is mind breaks, not inspirations.

[Texaskimo]

Context of this thread is sanguine vs iron willed; which do you prefer and why? Bringing up inspirations is relevant to the topic.

[Limdood]

Also, permanent mood boost means less ground to cover when trying to rise out of extreme risk while suffering from many or strong long-lasting negative moodlets. 

For example, while in withdrawal or with multiple bonded animal or relationship deaths, pawn mood tends to be extremely low or even locked at 0 due to the stack or strength of negative moods.  When you're stuck at 0 mood, it doesn't matter if you have iron will or sanguine, BUT sanguine helps you to get SOME positive mood easier, climbing more easily above the 5% extreme break threshhold, while iron will would struggle to rise above the 1% threshhold because it's more likely to be stuck at 0.

[zgrssd]

Context of this thread is sanguine vs iron willed; which do you prefer and why? Bringing up inspirations is relevant to the topic.

The thematic is "Sanguine vs Iron-Willed". Nothing in the opening post indicates for me this is only about the Break Threshold part.
Indeed if we only look at break threshold, there is no way that sanguines +12 Mood can even be competitive to Iron Willeds -18 Break Threshold.

If you lower the break threshold by -10% or increase mood by +10%, the mood treshold for a mental break is shifted 10 baseline mood (Mood before permanent trait effects) to the left. And even at the same value, the Break Threshold still has some superior effect:
If you baseline mood is at 0% or -100%, Iron willed still has a effect. Because the chane that you roll a major break is way lower. You might even roll 0 break.
If you baseline mood is anywhere below -10% however, Sanguine stops having any effect.

[bbqftw]

It's actually stunning how little people actually seem to play the game, or actually observe what is going on. Sanguine in vast majority of cases is better.

Assuming no other traits that increases break threshold, iron willed in game only lowers break threshold by 4%. This is because extreme break threshold minimum is capped at 1.

Thus extreme break is shifted to 1 from 5, major to 21 from 25, and minor to 31 from 35.

This is a difference of 4 threshold, not 18 as the trait suggests. The only way not to waste the rest of the trait is have a +threshold trait like neurotic.

Seriously, all this takes to realize is paying attention to the actual mood bar and the mental capacity to realize that 35 minus 18 is not 31.

[zgrssd]

It's actually stunning how little people actually seem to play the game, or actually observe what is going on. Sanguine in vast majority of cases is better.

You asume the rules have not changed in any time sicne you made that measurement/observation.
And we literally just had a patch that changed how Apparel and Material values work from the ground up, without mentioning it the patchnotes (well, it falls "under other stuff that was to much to mention").

[Firestonezz]

It's actually stunning how little people actually seem to play the game, or actually observe what is going on. Sanguine in vast majority of cases is better.

You asume the rules have not changed in any time sicne you made that measurement/observation.
And we literally just had a patch that changed how Apparel and Material values work from the ground up, without mentioning it the patchnotes (well, it falls "under other stuff that was to much to mention").

bbqftw's observation regarding mental break thresholds only changing by 4% is true for the most recent version of the game, B19.