Easy way to beat merciless naked brutality (and all other difficulties) v19.2009

Started by BLACK_FR, September 16, 2018, 07:32:56 AM

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zizard


Kangoshi

Quote from: BLACK_FR on September 16, 2018, 07:34:02 PM
That's called "winning". It is very fun, you should try it.
Pausing an item, when it's 1 work left, then canceling a bill, then haul it, then forbid it, then making a new bill an so on, and so on is very fun? I'm not fun person then. :o
You can win without all that, just gotta get good. And for the most players it's not about "winning" I'm sure - it's the process.
Anyway, I'm gonna have fun my way. Maybe you should try it too. ;)

BLACK_FR

I think it's kinda cheesy strategy, that's why I want that it will be fixed. That's why I made proposals so that other good players and me could play to the best of our abilites and still have challenge.
My way to have fun is always hardcore way (at least in this game).
Guide to mastery of the game - https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=46290
If you have idea how make merciless naked brutality run more challenging and fun - tell me

Crow_T

I agree with the improvements in the OP, but I'm afraid there will be pushback from those who want to play as a basebuilder in merciless difficulty, as was already seen in the B19 feedback thread. I watch Rimworld streamers, and it's way more interesting viewing when it is hard and dramatic- power players want winning to be a real challenge, most I've seen are pretty unfazed by colonist deaths, lost limbs, etc. I hope that the devs watch videos or are in contact with power players for feedback at the hardest levels, general community feedback nerfed things a bit much this time around.
(regarding dead man's apparel)
"I think, at the very least, the buff should go away for jackets so long as you're wearing the former owner's skin as a shirt."
-Condaddy20

b0rsuk

The whole idea of auto difficulty and raids scaling with wealth is weird and a huge can of worms.

You can invent all sorts of half-fixes and improvements, but it would all be solved if raid scaling changed to just increase with time. Suddenly:
- players would have an incentive to get wealthy as quickly as possible
- players would be encouraged to get as many people and animals as they can
- would be encouraged to keep their items in top condition
- encouraged to mine as as as they can, claim as fast as they can
- research as fast as they can (no I DO NOT WANT to consider if a new research is worth the extra threat points!)
- if a raid wipes out half of your colony, they don't suddenly start going easy on you
- if you send some people out in a caravan, raids against your outpost wouldn't suddenly scale down to be 'fair'.

At the very least, I would totally play a storyteller which only scales difficulty with time.

vzoxz0

QuoteAt the very least, I would totally play a storyteller which only scales difficulty with time.

Call him Chronos! Or Wednesday!

viperwasp

Personally I'm not as good at Rimworld. And I don't play in a way to min/max difficulty so I think most players won't be effected by issue. Because it takes a good understanding and playing against the way I like to play to accomplish this. That said. I would love the Devs to flesh out a more detailed difficulty curve if A) The Devs thought it was a good idea. B) It would not ruin the game. C) The players also wanted it.

But yeah a game mode or storyteller that works off of Time > Wealth could be interesting. Maybe early game wealth is most important but as time goes on time replaces wealth for the most part. Or maybe a game that uses MAX Wealth. So it does not use current wealth but the highest wealth your colony has reached.

The problem in my opinion is Rimworld is a product of YEARS of work and balance. It's almost at release and I think some of these suggestions will change the core of how Rimworld works. I personally find Rimworld hard on higher difficulties. So I mainly play on lower difficulties. I could get better but I like Rimworld for what it is. I love watching Lets Players though and I am disappointed if the Lets Player can easily win without trouble because they have learned to abuse game mechanics instead of just having skill. But I still think the game is challenging. And if you have to do things like purposely let your items deteriorate to lower wealth. Than that is META. Most people won't play that way even if they know about it etc.

But my opinion still stands that if the Devs want to tweak stuff or add a mode or story teller that may offer more of a challenge for those who choose to play the game like this etc? I'm all for that. 
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sadpickle

Does anyone know how much a tamed-for-release thrumbo contributes to raid strength? I got a freebie and I'm wondering if he's worth keeping around as a tanky monster or if I should just sell him.

BLACK_FR

Quote from: Crow_T on September 22, 2018, 11:11:08 PM
I agree with the improvements in the OP, but I'm afraid there will be pushback from those who want to play as a basebuilder in merciless difficulty, as was already seen in the B19 feedback thread. I watch Rimworld streamers, and it's way more interesting viewing when it is hard and dramatic- power players want winning to be a real challenge, most I've seen are pretty unfazed by colonist deaths, lost limbs, etc. I hope that the devs watch videos or are in contact with power players for feedback at the hardest levels, general community feedback nerfed things a bit much this time around.

I think for basebuilding is for other difficulties. Merciless should be VERY HARD, it should differ from peaceful difficulty in a meaningful way. Do you agree?
Also I consider myself power player and would love to participate in discussions regarding balance (for free).

Quote from: b0rsuk on September 23, 2018, 01:23:22 AM
The whole idea of auto difficulty and raids scaling with wealth is weird and a huge can of worms.
You can invent all sorts of half-fixes and improvements, but it would all be solved if raid scaling changed to just increase with time. At the very least, I would totally play a storyteller which only scales difficulty with time.

It's definitely good option to have. My new idea is the following: make an OPTION of raids scaling by wealth, scaling by time, scaling with research. You can choose 1, 2 or 3 scaling options. If you choose 2 of them than scaling is harder than if you choose only one. If you choose all 3 and merciless and naked brutality and disable all good events and starting pawn with no skills - then you basically screwed. It will be almost impossible to beat. That's what I would try to beat. Let it be optional but let it be there. Do you think it's even better idea?

Quote from: sadpickle on September 23, 2018, 10:16:59 AM
Does anyone know how much a tamed-for-release thrumbo contributes to raid strength? I got a freebie and I'm wondering if he's worth keeping around as a tanky monster or if I should just sell him.

The formula is complicated, but you can check your pawns and pets value at history tab at statistics section at colony wealth (people and animals).
You can add new thrumbo and check how that value had changed, than delete him back using dev mod.
Than you will see how much wealth does it add and you can calculate how many raid strength points it adds using formulas from this topic.
Guide to mastery of the game - https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=46290
If you have idea how make merciless naked brutality run more challenging and fun - tell me

Crow_T

"I think for basebuilding is for other difficulties. Merciless should be VERY HARD, it should differ from peaceful difficulty in a meaningful way. Do you agree?
Also I consider myself power player and would love to participate in discussions regarding balance (for free)."

Yep, I certainly agree, I was just lamenting the situation that happened in the feedback thread- a lot of people were playing above their skill level and complaining about it. I also mentioned a constantly increasing time based difficulty setting in that thread, with the caveat that relocating or large disasters, like most of the colony gets wiped, would ease the difficulty back for a bit. v0v we'll see what happens in the next version, hopefully power players will get that brutal setting they want.
(regarding dead man's apparel)
"I think, at the very least, the buff should go away for jackets so long as you're wearing the former owner's skin as a shirt."
-Condaddy20

BLACK_FR

So I got info from Tynan (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=45866.0) that at least current mechanic of unfinished items would be fixed, because it current usage can create exploit. I never use confirmed exploits, so I'll remove it from OP.

Also I slightly updated my suggestions to include all feedback in all topics that I got.

I hope that there is a way to know if there would be other changes on wealth and raid strength or not.
Guide to mastery of the game - https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=46290
If you have idea how make merciless naked brutality run more challenging and fun - tell me

5thHorseman

So I played an ultra-low-wealth game and won it on Randy Savage with few (but existent) problems.

However, I'm not sure how much easier it would have been, really. In the end I got bored pretty quick so packed up and headed to the crashed ship so I could just take off. Before that, I was seeing some raids that - precisely because I had such low wealth and therefore poor items - were actually getting difficult to handle.

Now, I refuse to micro everything (or almost anything really) so maybe this just isn't for me, but simply not having lots of nice things and not keeping extras of anything did not seem to be enough to make Savage a walk in the park. I think I would have had quite the challenge researching all the starship things while keeping the colony alive for years with very little to show for it.

As it was, when I decided to bail and head to the ship I was on the 3rd or 4th generation of the 2-4 people in the base, having all the previous ones die down to 1 person who held on until someone showed up to help. One of the final guys to take off was a Man In Black, in fact.

So while "Keep the wealth low" is great advice, it's not - in my opinion - the panacea that seems to be the trend in this forum. Yes it's better to not have a dozen sets of marine armor in storage, but I personally found it much easier to fight off raids of dozens of mechanoids with marine armor and charge rifles, than the few bandits that totally wrecked my guys that had leather clothes and poor quality autopistols.
Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

Crow_T

Just to preface this thought: more of a feels than hard data, but watching youtubers play 1.0 merciless it would seem that hard raids/caravan ambush type events have been nerfed in favor of more mental breaks to make up the difficulty compared to a18 and previous. Anyone else notice this? Maybe the wealth factor ramps up slower in merciless now?
(regarding dead man's apparel)
"I think, at the very least, the buff should go away for jackets so long as you're wearing the former owner's skin as a shirt."
-Condaddy20

zizard

@5horse

Goal is not to simply be poor, it is to be as strong as possible with least wealth.

5thHorseman

Quote from: zizard on November 04, 2018, 12:27:03 AM
@5horse

Goal is not to simply be poor, it is to be as strong as possible with least wealth.

I understand that. Getting strong weaponry and armor without also accruing other wealth proved difficult, as did protecting my base with static defenses without the same. Either my wealth was rising or my pawns were going on mental breaks every other day.

I'm not saying I'm the greatest player in the world. I'm saying this felt not much (if any) easier than the way I play the game normally.
Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.