Kicking dirt cooldown needs balancing

[evilgiraffe666]

Kicking dirt in someone's eyes seems to be worse than doing nothing. The cooldown for the kicker is longer than the debuff time for the victim, so the victim can get a few attacks in while the kicker is standing there doing nothing.

In the example that prompted this post, the combat log showed 0.4h between the kick and kicker's next action, during which time the victim got 3 punches in. They both have 5 Melee so it's probably not related to that.
I do have some mods on, but I feel like I've seen this in Vanilla while using the unstable branch.

I've also had examples where the victim is downed, everyone is undrafted and goes about their business, but the dirt-kicker is standing there looking like they've bugged out for a few seconds.

I like the flavour, but given the mechanics it's more like they've shoved dirt in their own eyes.

To me, the very long cooldown for the kicker is the issue that needs addressing, but the dirt duration could probably be longer too for the victim. If we want rare occurrences, make them useful - or at least if you want melee fumbles that hurt the pawn who does them, flavour them as such!

[vzoxz0]

In punching it isn't balanced, but if you're carrying a bow or something and kick dirt in a melee user's eyes, say who has a club, I think it's worth it.

[Dargaron]

In punching it isn't balanced, but if you're carrying a bow or something and kick dirt in a melee user's eyes, say who has a club, I think it's worth it.

You're not addressing his main point: that the cooldown from kicking sand in eyes (in which your colonist cannot attack) is longer than the debuff to the enemy colonist. In essence, you are not attacking at all, in order to slightly decrease the chance of your enemy hitting you. There is no situation in which this is a good trade-off, since the enemy is still capable of doing damage to your pawn, while your pawn is incapable of doing damage during the long cooldown. The optimal result is neither side taking damage: the likely result is your pawn taking some damage while the other pawn takes no damage.

At best, it's marginally useful if you send a low-melee pawn as a meat-shield to stop a Melee 16 Brawler w/Plasteel Gladius while your rangeed pawns shoot him/her, or some kind of gross mismatch like that.

This [/i]could[/i] be situationally useful (for instance, as a delaying tactic while ranged pawns actually deal the damage), except for the fact that it's completely random whether or not your pawn punches, bites or kicks sand.

[vzoxz0]

If it was shorter, you would essentially be giving yourself a full free turn and a half or more...

[OFWG]

If it was shorter, you would essentially be giving yourself a full free turn and a half or more...

Well yeah. Why else would you do it?

[vzoxz0]

To keep a superior, well armed enemy from slashing you in half is one thought.

[5thHorseman]

To keep a superior, well armed enemy from slashing you in half is one thought.

But they still can, after they recover and your pawn's still on cooldown.

[vzoxz0]

I haven't reproduced this yet, last time I saw someone kick dust in someone else's eyes, they won the fight.

[erdrik]

Ive never really looked at or noticed dirt kicking, is it not on it's own individual cooldown?

I think thats a problem if it isn't.
Regardless of how long the cooldown is, the kicker should be able to follow up at least once after using the maneuver, whether that follow up action is to attack the now stunned victim or to flee without fear of retaliation from the victim.

[horus]

not in my experience, dirt in they eyes seems to last for ages and the kicker can throw many attacks before it goes away while the enemy is at a massive penalty. that's how a 0 melee pawn can beat 10+ skill brawler - throw in a lucky dirt in they eyes.