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Author Topic: 'Social' is worse than ever.  (Read 1907 times)

b0rsuk

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'Social' is worse than ever.
« on: September 23, 2018, 02:55:45 PM »

What is the skill for again? It used to be pretty low value back when most new colonists had to be captured and converted. Nowadays there are plenty of options for new recruits, most of which don't involve the skill at all. Chased colonists, wanderers, rescue missions, ancient rooms, being nice to transport pod people, slave traders.

Price multiplier might have been changed, but at the end of the day caravans are still rare and it's just money.

It may have a role when you're a fan of capturing pirates.

The bottom line - it doesn't seem to *enable* or *allow* doing anything.
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5thHorseman

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2018, 03:20:43 PM »

It enables the ability to not fail at peace talks quest, but you could say that's "just" faction rep and also rare.

I don't really see the problem though. So it's different than the rest and you don't see the utility. Just ignore it and play without concerning yourself with it. It's even near the bottom of the list.
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Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

Shurp

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2018, 05:28:45 PM »

I think that's his complaint -- he feels like it should be more important.  He preferred when recruiting captives was the only/most important way to get new recruits.  Now it *can* be ignored.

Maybe it could be made more important other ways.  What if you could negotiate with the pirates when they showed up and convince them not to attack?

Or what if the pirates could convince your members to run away, and you had you use your leader's social skill to keep them put and fight?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPY5P0TaC4k

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If you give an annoying colonist a parka before banishing him to the ice sheet you'll only get a -3 penalty instead of -5.

And don't forget that the pirates chasing a refugee are often better recruits than the refugee is.

zizard

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2018, 06:00:37 PM »

Part of being a good player is identifying useless skills and keeping them low to avoid unnecessary pawn wealth.
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Electroid

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2018, 06:23:55 PM »

I'm pretty sure being high in the social skill makes it easier for your colonist to make friendships and / or get married and being able to maintain that marriage. which provides MASSIVE mood bonuses.

On top of that having a high social skill usually gives ~ a 15% price reduction for buying, and price increase for selling. that's 30% increase in total.

I would say the social skill is exactly where it needs to be. gives mood bonuses, recruit high quality colonists better and provides a financial bonus while selling / buying which you WILL do.

what else do you want this skill to do? rocket you off into space?
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5thHorseman

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2018, 06:36:37 PM »

He preferred when recruiting captives was the only/most important way to get new recruits.  Now it *can* be ignored.
But it still is the best way to do it. You get a few transport pods a year until you've got a dozen people, and then no more. And half or more of those are enemies that you need to recruit with social skill. You get a few more people running from attackers but generally those attackers (and other attackers who aren't chasing anybody) are better candidates and come in far greater numbers and you can see their stats before deciding to try for them.

Really, social IS still the best way to get candidates, if you care at all what those candidates are like.
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Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

cultist

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2018, 07:04:30 PM »

Part of being a good player is identifying useless skills and keeping them low to avoid unnecessary pawn wealth.
That's absurd. The game doesn't feature useless skills presented to the player as a trap they're supposed to learn to avoid. Perhaps the social skill is unbalanced or needs adjustment, but claiming it only exists to confuse and obstruct players makes no sense.
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bbqftw

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2018, 10:02:25 PM »

A lot of things in this game are wealth traps. In fact it can be argued that a key aspect in a player's improvement is when they realize that you shouldn't aim for colony growth insomuch as maximizing your utility / wealth ratio.
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Crow_T

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2018, 10:29:49 PM »

Recruiting is still the best way to get pawns, at least if you want halfway decent ones that you can be picky about. Also, you can rescue from drop pods, but that's no guarantee they will join, capture and recruit for good pawns.
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mlzovozlm

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2018, 07:24:14 AM »

early on, you hardly have chance to get a good communication pawn as other skills 're more needed, if you get one, well, lucky you, meanwhile later on, there's little use for it
i can barely keep it up to 12, with the pawn being 2 flame, being sole warden, with as many prisoners captured, as many caravan called over as possible, and its no use either way, not significant enough
and 1 pawn being good in communication isnt noticable if you have 18-20 pawns, less if it's RR with 30-ish - 50-ish pawns
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Serenity

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2018, 10:03:35 AM »

A lot of things in this game are wealth traps. In fact it can be argued that a key aspect in a player's improvement is when they realize that you shouldn't aim for colony growth insomuch as maximizing your utility / wealth ratio.
Nope. Only a certain type of people play that way. It's not normal though
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b0rsuk

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2018, 03:11:08 PM »

Actually I like the new varied recruitment options. It used be wanderer-joins or capture-prisoner for a long, long time. I don't think that should be limited. What I don't like is that I can't spot the difference between high social and no social. Even pawns with social disabled can throw parties, at least they could in b18.

I have a few constructive ideas how it could be improved: gossip. Pawns with high Social skill could be getting information from visitors and passing caravans. What kind of information? About quests, caravan opportunities,  various world map events, mineral deposits, raids heading your way. You could use existing systems but base them on Social skill - a bit like Luck worked in Fallout 1, 2.

You could even go as far as to introduce fog of war / shroud into world map and make Social substantially help with discovering it. People would tell you about where towns are located, or maybe lower grade roads (worse than asphalt) would be harder to notice if no one told you about them.

Naturally, cartography could be also based on Intellectual skill, but Social needs tweaking much more.

As for minmaxing the game playing the systems to the max - note that Rimworld recently got its title screen updated. It now says it's a story generator by Tynan Sylvester. No mention of simulation, game, colony...
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bbqftw

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2018, 03:18:59 PM »

A lot of things in this game are wealth traps. In fact it can be argued that a key aspect in a player's improvement is when they realize that you shouldn't aim for colony growth insomuch as maximizing your utility / wealth ratio.
Nope. Only a certain type of people play that way. It's not normal though

most players don't substantially improve, and it shows.
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Limdood

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2018, 03:28:16 PM »

A lot of things in this game are wealth traps. In fact it can be argued that a key aspect in a player's improvement is when they realize that you shouldn't aim for colony growth insomuch as maximizing your utility / wealth ratio.
Nope. Only a certain type of people play that way. It's not normal though

most players don't substantially improve, and it shows.
And most players are quite content to reach a point where the game is fun AND challenging...The moment i start playing like that "Easy way to beat merciless naked brutality" thread is the moment Rimworld loses ALL interest to me.  Why would i play a game where i can effortlessly beat the hardest mode?
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Shurp

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Re: 'Social' is worse than ever.
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2018, 05:56:50 PM »

Winning Rimworld is so *easy*:

1) Turn on Devmode
2) Turn on God Mode
3) Build ship
4) Load ship
5) Launch

See?  Note that I didn't say it was *fun*... and like you said, Limdood, that's the whole point, to create a challenge that's fun. 

Back to the OP, it sounds like he would enjoy more features which made use of the social skillset.  Other players have different priorities.  I wonder what mods are out there that might address this.
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If you give an annoying colonist a parka before banishing him to the ice sheet you'll only get a -3 penalty instead of -5.

And don't forget that the pirates chasing a refugee are often better recruits than the refugee is.
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