Deterioration change?

[Scavenger]

So hey, does deterioration no longer effect weapon and armor stats? (aside from market value)
I have to say, I really miss that mechanic of the game. It was a nice touch of realism that really kept me on my toes keeping all my equipment new and well taken care of. It was also great for story building. I really hope it gets reimplemented.

Realistic, yes, but a mechanic that was horribly abused and cheesed countless times by people that just want to win by cheating and exploiting lol. Exploiting those kind of mechanics is essentially the same as straight up using a mod to cheat. The only way it would be viable is if weapons did far less damage with lower durability, and armor had less armor.

[nameless1]

Wow, this is really really bad. Why the need to change this? It seems so..stupid.

[vzoxz0]

Realistic, yes, but a mechanic that was horribly abused and cheesed countless times by people that just want to win by cheating and exploiting lol. Exploiting those kind of mechanics is essentially the same as straight up using a mod to cheat. The only way it would be viable is if weapons did far less damage with lower durability, and armor had less armor.

It is not anywhere near the same as a mod. A mod is actually changing the game. This is simply exploiting game mechanics, "min-maxing". Players who min-max can reveal strategies that are ... strangely ... lucrative and result in poor balance, so it's good that some people play that way.

[nameless1]

I was expecting 1.0 to enrich the game, and this is quite the opposite. I hope Tynan will come up with a better solution, it would be a big mistake to cut that feature/mechanic like this.

[Scavenger]

Realistic, yes, but a mechanic that was horribly abused and cheesed countless times by people that just want to win by cheating and exploiting lol. Exploiting those kind of mechanics is essentially the same as straight up using a mod to cheat. The only way it would be viable is if weapons did far less damage with lower durability, and armor had less armor.

It is not anywhere near the same as a mod. A mod is actually changing the game. This is simply exploiting game mechanics, "min-maxing". Players who min-max can reveal strategies that are ... strangely ... lucrative and result in poor balance, so it's good that some people play that way.

I misspoke when I said modding lol. I meant like typing in codes to cheat like older games had. Like "showmethemoney", "big daddy", all those famous old ones from star craft and age of empires lol.

And I would  maybe argue  against that being min-maxing. Min-maxing is building efficiently within the rules. While that was technically part of the game, it was still exploiting a flaw that Tynan obviously didn't want in the game, as he removed it to prevent people from constantly doing that to game the wealth system. I mean it's horribly Un fun too, taking so much time to decay items to artificially decrease raid strength.

[bbqftw]

you talk about exploiting the AI with cheap killbox esque designs and you say other people are cheating, whatever makes you feel better I guess.

I still maintain that there's still some challenge, I took one hit during the reactor sequence instead of zero!! about 1/200 chance of brain damage is very spooky.

anyways if this change is reverted, its simply back to what was originally the correct plan, which was burning all masterwork+ weapons and other equipment you accidentally create, since in practically no case is this worth the extra wealth imposition.

[vzoxz0]

I misspoke when I said modding lol. I meant like typing in codes to cheat like older games had. Like "showmethemoney", "big daddy", all those famous old ones from star craft and age of empires lol.

And I would  maybe argue  against that being min-maxing. Min-maxing is building efficiently within the rules. While that was technically part of the game, it was still exploiting a flaw that

Tynan obviously didn't want in the game, as he removed it to prevent people from constantly doing that to game the wealth system. I mean it's horribly Un fun too, taking so much time to decay items to artificially decrease raid strength.

If it were a cheat, it would be intentional, so no, they are still very different. It is min-maxing. You are trading longevity/risk of a building being broken for lower overall value of the colony.

It might be interesting to simply reduce the value-modifier that lower quality has on something. Make sure the lower limit of value is something like a third? Then there'd be incentive to trade half-broken loot more often, and keep colony values higher on average due to the benefits it provides.

[BLACK_FR]

Realistic, yes, but a mechanic that was horribly abused and cheesed countless times by people that just want to win by cheating and exploiting lol. Exploiting those kind of mechanics is essentially the same as straight up using a mod to cheat. The only way it would be viable is if weapons did far less damage with lower durability, and armor had less armor.

That comment is strange. Previous mechanic (in B18) of health/utility of weapons and apparel was actually good and balanced (and it COULDN'T be used for for any exploits, you are wrong it this statement). NEW mechanic is unbalanced and can be taken advantage of. So new mechanic is both less realistic and has a worse balance.
Also this is very strange attitude for mechanics of the game. How is that can be that mechanic works as intended (and devs put some thought into how it should work), but using is the same as cheating? The only distinction in this game betweeng good and bad players is that good players know how mechanics of the game work and playing accordingly. So your attitude is that playing good is cheating. I guess you one of the casual players?

[vzoxz0]

If by casual you mean he probably uses thirty six mods, then I would guess yes.

[rkagerer]

How about losing the hit points when receiving the bullets then, instead of when dying? Clothing could lose quality proportionally to the wound severity and armor status. That way, the clothes from a downed pawn just about to die would be as useless as a dead one's, removing the "strip the guy before he dies" trick.

Could work.  That also has the realism benefit of clothing staying pristine if you kill people in exotic ways (e.g. heating / freezing to death).  But on the flip side it would introduce a bit more micro-management in having to refit people after each battle (pawns don't automatically change clothes when their stuff gets tattered, do they?).

To the larger discussion in this thread... One thing I don't mind about the binary nature of the current degradation mechanic is the reduction in micromanagement.  e.g. At first I assumed corn had to be collected immediately and any degradation would reduce the nutritional value (and similarly that you'd get less meat from degraded corpses).  So I was always in a rush to get everything indoors immediately, resulting in too much hauling micro-management making the game less fun (as I fought with my pawns - "No, pawn, stop over-harvesting!  Haul what you already harvested first!".  When I realized it doesn't matter if you bring it in at 10%, I felt a lot more flexibility and the game became much more fun.  (I'd be OK if there was one "yellow" timer bar to when degradation begins, and then after that a red one for while it's occurring.)

[BLACK_FR]

If by casual you mean he probably uses thirty six mods, then I would guess yes.

By casual I mean "bad player". But word "bad" have negative connotations that I wanted to avoid, because being bad player in this game is not the worst thing in the world. But being bad player and calling good play "cheating"... That is another story)

@rkagerer
But if you wait before hauling harvested crop it's cheating as some of the players here say. You see, in doing that you reduce wealth of your colony without losing any utility of your items.

[bbqftw]

During a recent reactor sequence with 14 pawns (20 raids, 15+ humanoid), the enemies combined dropped like 100k+ worth of weapons and gear. What is most offensive is sieges, these things drop like 500 steel and a bunch of psms, really rude, you have to go to the edge of the map and haul it. So is burning their stuff cheating? If I left the stuff alone my raid size would double from all the clothing (even tainted, 400+ corpses worth of stuff adds up) and dropped weapons. I am unsure of the rulebook!

I wish you could fine enemies for littering, let them live in exchange for picking up their dead comrades stuff off the map.

[BLACK_FR]

During a recent reactor sequence with 14 pawns (20 raids, 15+ humanoid), the enemies combined dropped like 100k+ worth of weapons and gear. What is most offensive is sieges, these things drop like 500 steel and a bunch of psms, really rude, you have to go to the edge of the map and haul it. So is burning their stuff cheating? If I left the stuff alone my raid size would double from all the clothing (even tainted, 400+ corpses worth of stuff adds up) and dropped weapons. I am unsure of the rulebook!

Definitely cheating! You see, all actions that make your game easier that Scavenger won't do is cheating (be Scavenger's definition). If you don't want to be a cheater you have to ask him what you are allowed to do.

Or alternatively you can use all mechanics you want apart from exploits confirmed by Tynan and point out all weaknesses in balance that you see, ideally suggesting how they should be fixed (my idea of how it should work).

[nameless1]

So nothing has been done for this? It literally killed my hype to play 1.0. I really don't understand why to strip off the game of a basic feature like this.

[Shurp]

So I've been playing B19, haven't even upgraded to 1.0 yet... and I see the same thing.  I have an enemy short bow lying on the ground from a raid that I haven't bothered to clean up yet.  Its quality is poor 46%, but only the poor affects the accuracy.  The 46% doesn't do anything???!!!

Should I go back to playing B18 until this gets fixed?