Version 1.0 is content-complete

Started by Tynan, October 01, 2018, 10:29:21 PM

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BlackSmokeDMax

Quote from: Third_Of_Five on October 02, 2018, 02:08:32 PM
Quote from: Tynan on October 02, 2018, 05:19:09 AM
The reason has nothing to do with the unstable build.

It's so that when 1.0 becomes the default, everyone's games don't become irrevocably broken. We want it to be possible to continue a beta19 game on the beta19 branch.

If you update your mods in place the day 1.0 comes out, anyone finishing a Beta19 game is simply screwed. This will be thousands and thousands of people.

Wait, so.. I could switch to 1.0 right now, and I could continue playing my unmodded b19 save with (virtually) no problems?

You should mostly have been able to do the same going from B18 to B19.

Third_Of_Five

Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on October 02, 2018, 02:11:52 PM
You should mostly have been able to do the same going from B18 to B19.

No, I don't think so. Pretty sure Tynan himself has said b19 breaks b18.

witchyspoon

I'm sorry and lose all my stats/subs etc on my WS Item just bc someone is too lazy to go and download the old version of my mod, bc his EA game *gasp* dared to update?
Yeah...no.

Alenerel

Tynan smoothly ignores the screams for patch notes

Third_Of_Five

Hey Tynan just one last quick question:

Has the grave names bug been fixed? Do graves now state the names of their occupants again instead of "Human Corpse"?

Dingo

Will you be removing mods from the Workshop if modders update in-place or is this just a friendly suggestion?

Fluffy (l2032)

#36
Tynan, respectfully, the day you start paying me is the day you can tell me how to update my mods.

I've always kept my mods in sync with the current 'main' release of RimWorld on Steam. I believe that for the vast majority of players, this is by far the best solution; their mods will continue working on new versions of RimWorld without any action on their part. Players that want to continue an old save game will already have to manually switch versions. It doesn't seem logical that players who don't manually change game versions, do have to manually change all of their mods.
Yes, this will break save games for some people. I'm sorry, but that's on you for a) changing the API (seriously, moving Translate?!), and b) using Steam Workshop to begin with (the lack of version control is laughable).

I'm already hard-pressed to maintain interactions with the people that use my mods, with discussions spread out over the forums, a dozen or so steam pages and my GitHub repositories. I'm certainly not going to spread the discussion out even more. I'm not going to lose my workshop item stats and create extra work because some people wouldn't take the effort to fetch old version of my mods from alternative download locations.

I'd also like to add that your tone in this has seriously pissed me off. I understand you're under pressure for a good 1.0 release, and I'm aware that mods are a pretty big chunk of RimWorlds' appeal. That should be all the more reason for you to treat modders with a bit more respect.

I wish you a great 1.0 release, and in the meantime, I'll keep releasing my mods like I always have.

Edit; typos. Thanks skully, you wanker :P.

Third_Of_Five

Quote from: Fluffy (l2032) on October 02, 2018, 03:47:43 PM

I'd also like to add that your tone in this has seriously pissed me off. I understand you're under pressure for a good 1.0 release, and I'm aware that mods are a pretty big chunk of RimWorlds' appeal. That should be all the more reason for you to treat modders with a bit more respect.


I'm not going to try and speak for Tynan, but I fail to see how this could be interpreted as disrespectful to modders. If anything, isn't it the opposite? Tynan is giving people time to update their mods for the 1.0 release. That seems pretty considerate of him, in my opinion.

I'm not a modder though, and I'm not going to fight about this. I'm just confused as to why you're mad.

Dingo

It is interpreted as extremely disrespectful for mod authors for reasons that are best left to another discussion. For now we can keep things copacetic with a few clarifications.

Fluffy (l2032)

#39
Quote from: Third_Of_Five on October 02, 2018, 03:51:34 PM
I'm not going to try and speak for Tynan, but I fail to see how this could be interpreted as disrespectful to modders.

Someone much smarter than me said it like this;
Imagine if a guy owned a hotel and I came every day and cleaned for free. So people like his hotel and pay him more. I do this for years. Now the hotel owner comes and tells me I'm cleaning wrong and please clean more of the rooms? For free. Just bc he said so.

I'd like to add that the hotel owner also did so without thanking me for my labour, or asking me for my opinion. Does that seem right? I never asked nor expected to be paid, and I don't need any thanks - but this is just rubbing me the wrong way.

Oh, one more thing, for those out there that are worried about save games getting broken, there's a much better solution: create local copies of Workshop mods. You can do this manually, or use a mod for it to do it in-game; Mod Switch or my own Mod Manager.

zizard

It seems a little futile if, as big T said, just a single modder updating in place will break a save. Also as fluffy said, it is suspect that this suggestion to modders is only now being given for the official release ($$$$$), when for all the previous versions nobody really cared about breaking saves.

5thHorseman

Quote from: Third_Of_Five on October 02, 2018, 02:08:32 PM
Quote from: Tynan on October 02, 2018, 05:19:09 AM
The reason has nothing to do with the unstable build.

It's so that when 1.0 becomes the default, everyone's games don't become irrevocably broken. We want it to be possible to continue a beta19 game on the beta19 branch.

If you update your mods in place the day 1.0 comes out, anyone finishing a Beta19 game is simply screwed. This will be thousands and thousands of people.

Wait, so.. I could switch to 1.0 right now, and I could continue playing my unmodded b19 save with (virtually) no problems?

That's what he's saying.

Also, if it DOES break your save, you can just go back to B19 and keep going on that.
Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

Third_Of_Five

Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 02, 2018, 05:34:24 PM
That's what he's saying.

Also, if it DOES break your save, you can just go back to B19 and keep going on that.

Wait, really?

Hold on, by that do you mean it won't corrupt my save file or are you just assuming I'll make backups?

5thHorseman

Quote from: Third_Of_Five on October 02, 2018, 07:34:43 PM
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 02, 2018, 05:34:24 PM
That's what he's saying.

Also, if it DOES break your save, you can just go back to B19 and keep going on that.

Wait, really?

Hold on, by that do you mean it won't corrupt my save file or are you just assuming I'll make backups?

Well first off, yes you should make backups :)

Secondly though no, it will not hurt your save. IF and ONLY IF you are not doing Commitment mode. But if you're doing Commitment mode in a beta you're asking for trouble anyway because in a beta there are a lot more things than version upgrades that can trash saves.

Assuming you're in Reload Anytime mode then yes, when you load your save in 1.0, even if it loads fine and you play for hours, so long as you don't re-save over the old save name that old save will be exactly the way it was when you saved it back in 0.19.
Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

notfood

Major RimWorld version released. When you have +200 mods, it's such an unpleasant chore to search for the new ones for those modders who like to split versions. It misses the whole point of having steam autoupdate mods. I don't want to inflict that pain to others.

Give us a better mod list manager that handles these cases and everyone will be happy.