Version 1.0 is content-complete

Started by Tynan, October 01, 2018, 10:29:21 PM

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lowdegger

Quote from: AileTheAlien on October 04, 2018, 02:49:26 PM
Quote from: Strawcave on October 04, 2018, 02:29:52 PM
mods can start to come across as almost part of the game
Paraphrasing someone earlier in this thread, nobody would expect the Ford motor company to fix a problem on a truck, caused by an after-market product like a winch!


"Hey there CEO of Ford, I painted my car lime green and showed some other people how to paint their cars lime green and now I demand a say in the colour of the next car you make."

notfood

@MarvinKosh, hunting your mods is an issue to me. I have to pay attention to the discord, the forum and the workshop for updates, it misses the whole point of having steam automatically handle the updates. So every time I want to start a colony, I have to check docens of red mods, one by one for updates. Sometimes they aren't even in the workshop. I subscribed for automatic updates, not a single download.

You may be making it easier to a segment of the population but you are making it harder for the other segment.

Then what happens when that segment is done with their save and want to start another one? They have to hunt for updates again. In the end everyone got inconvenienced.

zizard

Hang on are we going to version 1.0 without hand and foot armour? eww

Brrainz

#108
Hi everyone,

while you guys were busy discussing things back and forth, I decided to actually do something and create a third option: have your mods work with 0.19 and 1.0 at the same time.

I made a gist for a class that you simply add to your mod and it will allow you to continue to use the old Translator.Translate() method plus you can already mark your mod as 1.0 version in the About.xml so that the new Rimworld will not show is as incompatible. At the same time, it contains a patch to let the old Rimworld believe it is compatible too.

This does not solve ALL problems you might have with your code working with both Rimworld versions but it did work for my more complex mods like Achtung or Zombieland. I will continue testing them on both code bases and it is not very hard to build dynamic workarounds like the one I made for Translate.

Here is the gist: https://gist.github.com/pardeike/ba995510a468c00ce54091183a2f4aca

One thing is missing and it some kind of request from me to you Tynan: allow us to have both, 0.19 and 1.0 tags in steam workshop for such mods. It is the least you can do for all the work I put into this.

My 2 cents
Andreas Pardeike aka Brrainz


[EDIT] I just converted all my 10 mods to this system and got the to start on 1.0 without errors. Does not mean they run without errors but all the Harmony patches and init code ran without problems.


Strawcave

@AileTheAlien honestly I completely agree that's how it should be, but I feel like people often just complain to the person they gave money to even when they screw something up. Like how many people does Apple have to turn away coming in with 'suddenly broken phones' that are actually water damaged from dropping it in a sink or pool, or why does Red Bull actually have to say 'Red bull does not actually give you real wings'. Tynan can try to solve this problem by telling people how and why to backup their mods, but if that won't stop the majority of people from still messing up and complaining it's worth at least trying a more upstream solution like what is in his OP. It's kind of like how Apple can tell people in the manual 'don't get your phone wet', but if they had a realistic way of working with pool and sink manufacturers so that you actually can't drop a phone in a pool or sink, they probably would try just to avoid all of the time spent telling people it's their fault the phone isn't working.

Again I also totally see the mod makers side of this argument and it's definitely multifaceted. My main point was that we probably aren't going to hear from any of the people Tynan is talking about here in the forum so it's probably going to be a bit of an echo chamber.

PleaseBro

Can we be allowed to forbid passive coolers....

or do I have to wait for a mod for it.

Serenity

#111
Quote from: blerkz on October 04, 2018, 04:28:17 AM
So if I don't update on Workshop, 97% of people need to manually dig through Steam's (terrible) workshop interface to find a new version of their favorite mods
New versions are super simple to find as long as the mod has the version number in the name. Go to old version. Click on mod author name. Find new version. Some authors also have a link to the new version on the old page.

If I truly like a mod and think I need it for my enjoyment (and there are quite a few of those) I will remember the name and can find it through the searchbox too.
It didn't take me long to update most of my mods when I switched from B18 to B19. I can see some other arguments against maintaining two versions (such as people asking to fix bugs in old versions), but that one doesn't really work for me

Overall, I really, really like Steam for auto-updating mods, but a new version of the game is an instance where I understand that some manual intervention may be needed. As long as it's not too often

Third_Of_Five

Quote from: zizard on October 04, 2018, 05:14:04 PM
Hang on are we going to version 1.0 without hand and foot armour? eww

Not if you make a mod for it :P

zizard

Quote from: Third_Of_Five on October 04, 2018, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: zizard on October 04, 2018, 05:14:04 PM
Hang on are we going to version 1.0 without hand and foot armour? eww

Not if you make a mod for it :P

I suppose that's the problem with EA games. Can never be sure if they will actually be completed or just released.

5thHorseman

Quote from: zizard on October 04, 2018, 07:26:41 PM
Quote from: Third_Of_Five on October 04, 2018, 06:46:10 PM
Quote from: zizard on October 04, 2018, 05:14:04 PM
Hang on are we going to version 1.0 without hand and foot armour? eww

Not if you make a mod for it :P

I suppose that's the problem with EA games. Can never be sure if they will actually be completed or just released.

Why specify EA in that? It's not like AAA games are released with every feature users could ever want. Or every user would reasonably expect.
Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

zizard

Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 04, 2018, 08:10:31 PM
Why specify EA in that? It's not like AAA games are released with every feature users could ever want. Or every user would reasonably expect.

Non-EA games are judged by their content when the game becomes available. EA games are (understandably) cut slack during development, assuming that incomplete content will be finished and a guesttimated amount of new features will be added. The problem is that that content may never materialise.

RemingtonRyder

Quote from: notfood on October 04, 2018, 04:12:13 PM
@MarvinKosh, hunting your mods is an issue to me. I have to pay attention to the discord, the forum and the workshop for updates, it misses the whole point of having steam automatically handle the updates.

I usually always post to all the applicable places - Twitter, Patreon, Discord, the Marvin's Stuff topic on Ludeon forums, and the Steam Workshop comments for the mod when I have a test version available.

And then when I have a stable version, it's all of those plus Reddit and my site's mailing list.

I'm sorry that all of my mods aren't on Workshop right away, but some of them need a longer testing period before they're released. Usually, it's just me testing the mods, despite the availability of test versions.

All of my Workshop mods have links to navigate to the new version if it's available, and the game version it is for is on the thumbnail.

I think I've done all I reasonably can to make it as convenient as possible despite the lack of in-place updates. If you want only in-place updates, there are mod makers who do that. Go subscribe to their mods instead.

b0rsuk

Quote from: Fluffy (l2032) on October 02, 2018, 04:26:46 PM
Someone much smarter than me said it like this;
Imagine if a guy owned a hotel and I came every day and cleaned for free. So people like his hotel and pay him more. I do this for years. Now the hotel owner comes and tells me I'm cleaning wrong and please clean more of the rooms? For free. Just bc he said so.

I'd like to add that the hotel owner also did so without thanking me for my labour, or asking me for my opinion. Does that seem right? I never asked nor expected to be paid, and I don't need any thanks - but this is just rubbing me the wrong way.

Hey princess,
if I a thing or two about modders, it's that they usually can't code a game engine (or it would take them a prohibitively long time). So a game they can mod is actually a golden opportunity for them because they have this urge to make a game but can't code (or manage a team) well enough to realize it.

Using your analogy, this would mean some people who come to a hotel and organize table tennis tournaments, karaoke, stage plays (or LARPs - for acting school dropouts). Yes, it does make the hotel more attractive for some people and draws some more people in, but also puts some constraints on the hotel owner. If he executes his right to rent rooms and space however he pleases, he risks annoying some customers, who come there not exactly for typical hotel attractions but for something else organized by some customers on their own.
And the tournament/karaoke/stage/drawing lessons organizers can't build houses, can't afford to pay them done, can't afford to rent some attractive space on their own. They threaten to pick up their toys and go somewhere else.
Only in reality, there aren't many places they can go, because Rimworld is one of the few hotels that allow customers such a degree of freedom, with a large garden and liberal staff. They couldn't find a place just like Rimworld.

Because how many other moddable sci-fi colony simulation games are there? How moddable is Dwarf Fortress? Factorio - even if it is (no idea), you'd have to fit in into their industrial setting.

Ramsis

Chill b0rsuk we're all friends here.
Ugh... I have SO MANY MESSES TO CLEAN UP. Oh also I slap people around who work on mods <3

"Back off man, I'm a scientist."
- Egon Stetmann


Awoo~

Roolo

#119
Quote from: Brrainz on October 04, 2018, 05:21:21 PM
Hi everyone,

while you guys were busy discussing things back and forth, I decided to actually do something and create a third option: have your mods work with 0.19 and 1.0 at the same time.

[...]

Wow, awesome work. I'll check it out. For me it always felt like choosing between two bad options so I'm really glad you came up with a third.