Ludeon Forums

Ludeon Forums

  • April 21, 2019, 10:26:13 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.  (Read 316 times)

VortecusMaximus

  • Tester
  • Colonist
  • **
  • Posts: 127
  • Tester
    • View Profile

The mood penalty for selling a bonded animal lasts far too long, it gives -10 mood penalty for 60 days! However when a bonded animal is killed, it gives only a -8 mood penalty for 20 days? Surely selling your animal whilst it's alive (if you don't have enough food for it) should be a better alternative than just slaughtering it for a lesser mood penalty?

The really funny thing is: a colonist only gets a -2 mood penalty from a colonist, that they consider a friend, dying and even that lasts for only 20 days. It gets even more hysterical when a family member dies, it only gives a -4 mood penalty and only lasts for 30 days.

These numbers really need to be readjusted. When a self-tamed muffalo that has been in the colony for 2 days, and nuzzled into someone creating a bond has more of an impact when dead than ones parent, then there's definitely a problem.
Logged

togfox

  • Drifter
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2019, 11:48:35 PM »

I wonder if these are specified in the xml?

If so it would be easy for someone to release a simple mod that rebalances the numbers in the OP.
Logged

VortecusMaximus

  • Tester
  • Colonist
  • **
  • Posts: 127
  • Tester
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2019, 10:17:06 PM »

A mod isn't a solution to an unbalanced part of the core game. I like to keep my game as vanilla as possible because I'm usually always looking for bugs to report for Tynan.
Logged

Canute

  • Transcendent
  • *****
  • Posts: 6943
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2019, 03:09:13 AM »

Basicly it isn't a bug, it is more a suggestion.
You think it is unbalanced, other maybe don't think so.
20/30 days are around a quadrum (quarter year) and when you maybe watch at real life how long some people are sad when their beloved animal dies it is ok (i know from a woman around my area who is still sad since 2 years and broke up with their friend).

Logged

VortecusMaximus

  • Tester
  • Colonist
  • **
  • Posts: 127
  • Tester
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2019, 12:17:42 PM »

So should it not be a personal taste then? Depending on how close they are to their family/friend who died or how bonded they are to their animal?
Logged

VortecusMaximus

  • Tester
  • Colonist
  • **
  • Posts: 127
  • Tester
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2019, 12:21:10 PM »

What I'm trying to say, is that, the "selling" of a bonded animal lasts for 60 days, which is far too long when you look at the base-value for the other mood penalties, that are technically more severe most of the time. So adding a sort of bond level to animals could be a great feature, just like training, if an animal isn't bonded with enough by the person they're bonded with, they'll eventually lose that bond. And if a newly bonded animal dies, it should have less of an effect than that of a bonded animal for 2 quadrants or even 2 years. 
Logged

AlchemistNezumi

  • Muffalo
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2019, 05:53:38 PM »

Actually, it makes sense. Think about it. When someone or something dies, you know where it is. You know, that it's gone, and hopefully in a better place(which on Rim is a low bar). You're hurt, but you know life must move on and you get over it. But, selling something that you love is different, especially if it's a living thing. It's not dead and you don't know how it feels right now. You think, "What's happening to it? Is it having fun? Is it safe? Who, if anyone, is hurting it?". You imagine it suffering out there. It keeps you up a night. So, it's makes sense to me.

This is not a bug; it's just your input, which I respectfully disagree with. Plus, it's like a -10? Yes, that's a lot. But, just make some art, bury some people, get some booze(hell, this one is how some people cope in real life), and it's fine in normal gameplay. Maybe Tynan will agree with you, but honestly, I think you should just make a mod suggestion for this as, while Tynan is not done with this game by a long shot, this is the final major release. Plus, if the colonist and animal have bonded, it implies to me that they are at the highest level of friendship. Like, the animal goes bat shit crazy when the colonist dies. That's not a fleeting bond; that's man's best friend, brothers-in-arms, get Randy Newman in here to sing "You Got a Friend in Me" 'cause they are close, man. It's pretty reasonable to have a mood debuff for a long time for a bond like that.

If you really wanted to change something, then an event in which the animal comes back would be wicked. But, I think, if you don't want the animal, like you said, just kill it and eat it.

~AlchemistNezumi
Logged

Jibbles

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2019, 07:53:19 AM »

This topic reminds of a pathing bug I pointed out in b19.  Players suggesting it was intended by design when it doesn't really make sense to implement it that way. Thankfully it was fixed.

I can see why it's a bug.  OP has already made it clear.

Quote
The mood penalty for selling a bonded animal lasts far too long, it gives -10 mood penalty for 60 days! However when a bonded animal is killed, it gives only a -8 mood penalty for 20 days?

It's quite obvious it doesn't make sense.  Try to view this mood hit as a NEW player.  If we run a survey, I guarantee you most players/people would assume having a pet die would come with worse consequence. The reasonings for the severity of the mood debuff is a bit of a stretch IMO, especially when we start breaking down the other mood hits if this wiki is still accurate. https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Thoughts

« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 08:23:10 AM by Jibbles »
Logged

VortecusMaximus

  • Tester
  • Colonist
  • **
  • Posts: 127
  • Tester
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 01:26:23 PM »

Thank you Jibbles, at least I'm not the only one not batting an eye at this. I'm not saying it lasts too long, but that compared to the other mood penalties, it does last too long. Either change the other mood penalties by rising their duration or lower the selling bonded animal one.
Logged

AlchemistNezumi

  • Muffalo
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2019, 03:00:24 AM »

This topic reminds of a pathing bug I pointed out in b19.  Players suggesting it was intended by design when it doesn't really make sense to implement it that way. Thankfully it was fixed.

I can see why it's a bug.  OP has already made it clear.

Quote
The mood penalty for selling a bonded animal lasts far too long, it gives -10 mood penalty for 60 days! However when a bonded animal is killed, it gives only a -8 mood penalty for 20 days?

It's quite obvious it doesn't make sense.  Try to view this mood hit as a NEW player.  If we run a survey, I guarantee you most players/people would assume having a pet die would come with worse consequence. The reasonings for the severity of the mood debuff is a bit of a stretch IMO, especially when we start breaking down the other mood hits if this wiki is still accurate. https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Thoughts

That's still not a bug. It's coded to work as intended and it does work, correct? Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't make it a bug. That's arrogant to say or imply. If the buff said 30 days and then DIDN'T go away after that amount of time, then it's a bug and should be reported. But, this is just a conversation about taste, not an actual glitch. If you want to fix it yourself, by all means.

Also, pathing and mood is incomparable. I get what you are saying, and yeah, I remember that being awful. But, pathing can affect a lot things in the colony like work speed, rescuing people, etc. Plus, pathing can result in colonist getting stuck in odd places or being unable to move. A mood debuff doesn't do that. The colonist has a mental break or two and that's it. And it's not hard, even for new players, to still get a net mood gain.

And to be honest, looking at the thoughts page on the wiki, the ONLY one that is iffy to me is the sold loved one. -10/20d is not enough, and to that one, I give you. Needs to be way longer, unless Tynan is making a statement on how much people love animals more than humans. The rest are fine, at least for the most part. So, tell me, which do you mean? I'd love to know as I see no others, none that would quantify lowering the time on this debuff.

Thank you Jibbles, at least I'm not the only one not batting an eye at this. I'm not saying it lasts too long, but that compared to the other mood penalties, it does last too long. Either change the other mood penalties by rising their duration or lower the selling bonded animal one.

I know what you are saying. I know you think is long not in and of itself but in comparison to other debuffs. I just disagree. I believe that 60 days is fair for this kind of thing. If I had to maybe 50 days at the lowest. Re-read my justification as to why. If your animal got sold and you loved them with all your heart, you'd be a wreck. You'd be a wreck with them being dead, but even more of one with being away from you and you'd worry about them for a long time and, like I said, if there was an event for them to run away from the buyer and back to the colony would be sweet. Other than that, I believe it's fair, and to be honest, new players will just keep the damn thing, even if it's a Yorkie or a cat. Even if it can't do much, like rescuing and hauling, it can at least nuzzle people, possibly giving a +11 if it nuzzles the owner.

Now, I am willing to level with you on one thing. Back to the sold loved one mood debuff. Were I to redo it, I'd have different tiers for extended, immediate, and parents and children, with all being longer than the sold pet one (-15/60d, -20/70-80d, -25/90d-2y respectively) . That way, it's a bit more fair as your family should matter more, even if you aren't on the best of terms. I wouldn't lower the pet one, just make it even more justifiable. Hell, I'm tempted to make mod for it. But, like I said, I do agree with that mood debuff, but only that one.

Other than that, there are others that are iffy in general, like the raw v. cooked cannibalism when you are a cannibal or doing anything bad to prisoners, but that's not solely relevant to the topic at hand.

But, yeah. This is still not a bug, and I still disagree with you. I can't speak for Tynan as he may agree, however. And no, I can't do anything official, but I can go out and make a mod that changes it and not feel the need go on the forums to whine about it and call it a "bug". In fact, I may try that.

Good day.

~AlchemistNezumi
Logged

Jibbles

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 05:18:12 AM »

I looked on wiki before making my other post.  I noticed the " loved one sold " and several others like husband died. I don't believe there any others that extend to 60 days as well.  It really sticks out and it's why I agreed with OP, but even with the other debuff in place you're still against the idea that it should be lowered. so why take the time to disagree on inconsistencies or valid points?


That's still not a bug. It's coded to work as intended and it does work, correct?

Do you think it'd be inappropriate to post here if it took 75 limestone blocks while others stone-types take 5 to build a single wall even if it was coded that way? Even tho it seems whack to require that? The whole reason why I brought up pathing is cause it's discouraging to take the time to post these things if others disagree and possibly call it whining. I think the bug sections is the best place to post small details like this.  Whether it be oversight or intended - it's best for the dev to  re-evaluate.  I rather end it here. Have a good one.



Logged

VortecusMaximus

  • Tester
  • Colonist
  • **
  • Posts: 127
  • Tester
    • View Profile
Re: 1.0.2150 - Mood penalty for selling bonded animal lasts far too long.
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2019, 12:56:39 AM »

That's still not a bug. It's coded to work as intended and it does work, correct?

You're calling me arrogant when I haven't even referred to this as a bug. I referred to it as an "unbalanced part of the core game". Just because YOU think this is good, or think it's somehow balanced in your deranged mind, does not mean it is. Like you said, we'll let the real developers decide. Until I see you posting more than 6 things on this forum and not contributing anything other than moaning at other people's findings, kindly shut the f*** up. Peace.
Logged