Ludeon Studios has riduclously hypocritical policies

Started by Jebus, March 18, 2019, 06:15:04 PM

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Jebus

Why is cannibalism, adultery, slavery, torture, forced starvation, organ harvesting and more all allowed, but pleasuring yourself alone in a room is so taboo that it's completely banned from the game?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=931707775

Why **exactly** is this banned in a game where all of the above mentioned and more are not just allowed, but encouraged?

It's jerking off. Guys. Seriously? It's self-pleasure. If that's too "adult" for you, then why the fuck do you have a game where you can imprison people, harvest their organs, cook them for dinner, then sell their underage relatives into slavery?

Goldenpotatoes

You aren't gonna see much success here for the same reason you won't see RimjobWorld on the steam workshop, albeit that being the more extreme end of the spectrum. The fact underage pawns can be generated in the vanilla game (although their limit is like 16-17) probably doesn't help your case.

There's better hills to die on, man.

ReZpawner

Masturbation is perfectly legal for anyone at all - DISPLAYING it, however, is completely and utterly fucking illegal in almost all first world countries. You'll note the use of the word "depictions" instead of "pictures of", which means that if a below 18 year old pawn in RimWorld should masturbate, then Ludeon Studios could legally be complicit in enabling the creation of child pornography - the mod creator would DEFINITELY go down for it.

The PR nightmare that would follow is something that no developer would want to touch with a 10" pole. It's just not worth it. Just be glad that you CAN make mods like that if you so wish, instead of being pissed off about the distribution.


Dr_Zhivago

Quote from: ReZpawner on March 18, 2019, 08:20:27 PM
Masturbation is perfectly legal for anyone at all - DISPLAYING it, however, is completely and utterly fucking illegal in almost all first world countries. You'll note the use of the word "depictions" instead of "pictures of", which means that if a below 18 year old pawn in RimWorld should masturbate, then Ludeon Studios could legally be complicit in enabling the creation of child pornography - the mod creator would DEFINITELY go down for it.

The PR nightmare that would follow is something that no developer would want to touch with a 10" pole. It's just not worth it. Just be glad that you CAN make mods like that if you so wish, instead of being pissed off about the distribution.

There are mods that do far worse than allowing the possibility for masturbation to be a source of joy (including minors of all ages), and no one is chasing them with pitchforks. In-game loving of minors already exists between minor and adult pawns (if we are going to call the Vanilla min. age a minor).

This mod is essentially the same animation as "meditation" so there is no graphic display of anything sexual. Seems a bit absurd to flag the mod, unless you're going to pretend that masturbation is so heinous and no one should participate in it to any extent.

ReZpawner

#4
https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/child-pornography

QuoteFederal law defines child pornography as any visual depiction of sexually explicit conduct involving a minor (persons less than 18 years old).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2256

Quote(8) "child pornography" means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where—
(A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;
(B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or
(C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct.


In short: Not a single industry professional in their right mind would go anywhere near this shitstorm. And this is only the legal aspect of it, not moral or ethical issues.

Kender

I do not really care about whether Masturbation could/should be in the game.
but it amuses me that human sacrificing is allowed in call of Cthulhu mod in comparison.
Rogue, from Kendermoore of Dragonlance.

Bozobub

It's like this:  The US was originally colonized by Puritans.  These were guys with buckles on their heads who were kicked out of England because everyone else was just plain tired of their dour asses.  They thought dancing called the Devil, FFS, don't even bother asking about SEX!  And these humorless bastards were the beginning of the trend; titties are ee-e-e-vil but bloody violence is A-OK, USA #1!

So yes, we have more laws restricting sexual behavior than violence.  And yes, all moral issues aside, Ludeon simply isn't going to kick that particular hornets' nest, if they can help it.
Thanks, belgord!

p0sTpWnEd

The argument that "X is wrong but allowed, so Y which is also wrong should also be allowed" has always amused me.

avilmask

Well, who's fault is that that violence is less forbidden subject than sex? That's a weird and very old holy war.

Kender

Quote from: p0sTpWnEd on March 19, 2019, 10:03:09 AM
The argument that "X is wrong but allowed, so Y which is also wrong should also be allowed" has always amused me.
That is not the argument here.
The argument is "X is wrong but not allowed, but Y is much worse, yet allowed."
Rogue, from Kendermoore of Dragonlance.

TheMeInTeam

#10
QuoteIn short: Not a single industry professional in their right mind would go anywhere near this shitstorm. And this is only the legal aspect of it, not moral or ethical issues.

It might strike some as surprising, but Rimworld characters are not "minors" no matter what number you put next to them.  They are not real people, nor are they depictions of real people.  In vanilla there isn't even a difference in appearance between characters vastly different in age.

On legal grounds there's nothing relevant to this thread.  If there were, the vanilla game's "lovin" would have the same issues because you can have someone 25+ sleep with someone who is < 18.  In the strict sense, this would violate anything the mod allegedly violates.

There is also no viable moral argument against fictional characters in this context either.  I'd probably extend that to in general, but certainly for Rimworld.  That's doubly true in a game that allows slave trade, organ harvesting, and outright murder (sometimes against the player's will!).  I'm not seeing how anybody can come up with coherent reasoning that a 16 year old getting shanked through the eye by a steel knife until they die is somehow more acceptable.

I see no reasoning masturbation that adds anything to the game.  You can just pretend that's what "meditation" means and get the same practical result.  Doesn't make a gameplay difference.  However, there's also no reason to flag this mod, OP is correct to call it hypocritical.

zizard


Nafensoriel

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on March 19, 2019, 12:48:12 PM
QuoteIn short: Not a single industry professional in their right mind would go anywhere near this shitstorm. And this is only the legal aspect of it, not moral or ethical issues.

It might strike some as surprising, but Rimworld characters are not "minors" no matter what number you put next to them.  They are not real people, nor are they depictions of real people.  In vanilla there isn't even a difference in appearance between characters vastly different in age.

On legal grounds there's nothing relevant to this thread.  If there were, the vanilla game's "lovin" would have the same issues because you can have someone 25+ sleep with someone who is < 18.  In the strict sense, this would violate anything the mod allegedly violates.

There is also no viable moral argument against fictional characters in this context either.  I'd probably extend that to in general, but certainly for Rimworld.  That's doubly true in a game that allows slave trade, organ harvesting, and outright murder (sometimes against the player's will!).  I'm not seeing how anybody can come up with coherent reasoning that a 16 year old getting shanked through the eye by a steel knife until they die is somehow more acceptable.

I see no reasoning masturbation that adds anything to the game.  You can just pretend that's what "meditation" means and get the same practical result.  Doesn't make a gameplay difference.  However, there's also no reason to flag this mod, OP is correct to call it hypocritical.

You have never dealt with governmental regulations. Do you think they exist in a world of logic and planning? HA.
If you notice pawns in rimworld are never younger than 14. There is a reason for that. Regulations are weird random and the people who enforce them give exactly zero shits what you intended or not.

Limdood

Simply put, it's Ludeon's game and they can decide what they will and won't allow in their game.

TheMeInTeam

#14
QuoteYou have never dealt with governmental regulations. Do you think they exist in a world of logic and planning? HA.
If you notice pawns in rimworld are never younger than 14. There is a reason for that. Regulations are weird random and the people who enforce them give exactly zero shits what you intended or not.

You've moving the goalpost.  I don't think anybody is surprised to hear government regulations are arbitrary nonsense.  That doesn't change the point of what you quoted.  If "masturbation" would be a violation, so must be vanilla Rimworld's "lovin".

Regardless, the law quoted above isn't relevant.  Rimworld characters are not "persons".  They are not real.  That is why you can make one sponge 30 bullets from a rifle for fun or forcibly remove organs until they die w/o consequences.  If they were "persons", doing these things would get you a life sentence at minimum in most states/countries, regardless of their age.

QuoteSimply put, it's Ludeon's game and they can decide what they will and won't allow in their game.

Nobody in this thread has said otherwise.  OP is making a case that restricting this mod is hypocritical, and that assertion holds.  Whether or not you care in this particular case, this is a demonstrably hypocritical situation because any credible standard applied to block it should also block vanilla mechanics.

I don't care about the mod, but I do care about the precedent.  Dishonest moves lose trust.