Massive map sizes & NPC Faction base building

[Entityofsin]

Not sure if this has been suggested but bare in mind I haven't been visiting these forums a lot in a long while, like since Alpha 3. I also must say that out of all the colony/base building simulator games that I've tried (about half a dozen), Rim World is absolutely hands down the best one I've played. Even in the early Alpha test stages the game was far more developed and polished up than competing titles, at least in this very critically and negative gamer's perspective of proper game design. I just wish I knew more about how to mod and develop games to offer a more active role in Rim World's design and development.

So I've been playing on the largest optimized map size now for Alpha 5 and I gotta say, it's nice to see all that extra space. The thing I would like to see is the largest map size be something incredibly massive in scale, like around 1000 x 1000, 2000 x 2000, and even something insanely large like 5000 x 5000. Because for those of us that have decently powerful computers we could play on those larger map sizes.

Now what would this allow? It could enable the ability to see NPC factions that would normally visit or raid your colony to be visitable or raidable. Perhaps the NPC factions your friendly with get attacked by those they are hostile towards and vice versus. It could be comical to see tribal people zerging a raider base with a group of 80 people.

I see the first steps of this NPC base building already in the game with Alpha 5 cause of the mortar turret placements and sandbags being built during base sieges. So it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with the possibility that raiders can build their own bases, gather their own metal, stone, wood, food, etc. and manage their own economy, distribute tasks among the base's residents, and so forth. How hostile NPC faction bases would get resupplied by people is they would just move in from off the map, get drop podded in, or possibly even have children and reproduce that way.

It sure would add a lot of depth and imagination to the game. It does require a few other things that would either be activated when the map size is picked or those things would always be on at least for the player to utilize in building up the colonies. So I'll just list some of the stuff that would be involved with these massive map size options.

• 1000 x 1000 to 5000 x 5000 map sizes.
• Colonists/NPCs forming families and having children that age and grow up.
• NPCs of Neutral, Friendly, and Hostile base building on the map.
• NPC bases getting resupplied with people in addition to child births to re-populate bases.
• Compete with NPC factions for natural resources on the map.
• Get to see factions that are hostile towards one another fight each other in open ground, raid each other's bases, capture people of one another, and basically wage war with one another.

So when you think of these ideas and incorporate them with other ideas, such as that zombie mod Justin C made that I never got to play around with, you can imagine some pretty insanely cool things happening. Entire NPC bases could get wiped out by zombie hordes or Mechs or if someone makes a plague mod (unless diseases and viruses get put into the game by default at a later Alpha or possibly a Beta stage) then the dynamics of events would be a lot more enriching to experience.  It would certainly make losing colonists a lot more painful and personally I like that cause it makes it more challenging. It's also why I feel that if the idea of larger maps does become a reality it would kind of ask for the other things on the list above too, such as colonists making families and making babies and all that stuff. It could potentially allow players to build entire small towns as well and that also sounds really awesome too.

Just some ideas that I hope get added to the list of features people have suggested that might make the cut into the game. I think all of them are possible since the majority of the stuff already exists in Alpha 5 on a basic level anyways.

[BetaSpectre]

Most of these things are highly supported but are things for the future.

Large map sizes just don't run well so far.

Although something akin to the wasteland 2 or fallout 1-2 map system would work out for both gameplay and immersion.

It'd also give ships more meaning maybe xD.

[bjo0rn]

If you haven't already done so, you should read the change log since the Alpha 5 release.

It can be found in the General section.

[Avis]

I'm beginning to see this suggestion pop up every time i come on the forums for more than 5 minutes.

[BetaSpectre]

IKR, it just shows what everyone wants. Soon Tynan should update his thread telling people what won't be happening anytime soon but will or won't

[Entityofsin]

If you haven't already done so, you should read the change log since the Alpha 5 release.

It can be found in the General section.

I skimmed through it and it didn't really say much for map sizes.

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I wasn't aware if this was something highly suggested. Good to know that I am not the only one that wants it. Hopefully Ty responds regarding the other things on the suggestion list that would go with massive map sizes.

[Tynan]

There's no plan to make map sizes larger than 400x400, and not just for performance reasons. At larger sizes you start to run into logical and I problems, too. E.g. colonists don't care how far away work is from them, but if the map is big enough you sure don't want them crossing it to haul a piece of metal and starving to unconsciousness before they get back. Dozens of similar problems appear for enemy raiders as well.

Note that a 5000x5000 map is 25 million cells. Current standard and comfortable map size, 250x250 is 62,500 cells, or 400 times less. So I'd have to achieve a 400x improvement in performance to make this work.

So that's the cost side. What about the benefit side? Well, your brain can't really keep track of more than about 12 characters, which is why very few movies, TV shows, or novels have more than 12 characters of any consequence. Therefore, the game is designed to work up to a colony of around 12 colonists. 12 people can make a colony that fits easily within a 400x400 space (in fact it fits in 250x250 easily). So what's the upside of adding more space beyond that? I don't really see any. Even if you want to make an anthill full of colonists you don't know you can do it in 400x400, no problem.

As for raiding enemies, we can do that in a much easier way: just send your colonist raiders to a separate map (note I say easier, not easy. This is still extremely hard and is not planned).

Looking at the costs and benefits, and comparing that calculation to dozens of other ideas (organ harvesting, drug trade, police/sherriffs, intracolony politics, true faction system, more endgames, etc etc), this falls up way short of all these other goodies. So yeah, it won't happen. Sorry.

[Entityofsin]

Thanks for explaining the map size issue. I wasn't sure how that was worked out in the game. Honestly, I wouldn't have minded all that much to see colonists run so far away that hey die from lack of food or get killed by animals. But that's just me personally.. I am sure larger map sizes could be modded into the game but I am not even sure how that would be possible.

You mentioned that you can send colonists to a separate map and that isn't planned? Meaning it isn't going to be a default feature of the game but is possible through mods to allow NPC factions to build their own bases on a 400 x 400 map? I am not really sure what you mean by that. Tynan, could you please elaborate a little more on that?

EDIT: I double checked the 400 x 400 map size. I gotta say.. it feels larger than I thought it would for my first glance at it. So I imagine my suggestion of 5000 x 5000 would be incredibly impractical now cause you would lose track of colonists too quickly. Plus when you're fully zoomed out on a 400 x 400 map you can't even see the entire map. lol

[bjo0rn]

If you haven't already done so, you should read the change log since the Alpha 5 release.

It can be found in the General section.

I skimmed through it and it didn't really say much for map sizes.

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I wasn't aware if this was something highly suggested. Good to know that I am not the only one that wants it. Hopefully Ty responds regarding the other things on the suggestion list that would go with massive map sizes.

Since you want bigger maps I though world generation with biomes and weather would catch your interest.

[Entityofsin]

It does. More variety in terrains is something everyone would really like. But I have no idea what that would actually mean in the game. But if I can generate a map where it's mostly desert and can have sandstorms or play a snow colony game where snow storms exist then that would be cool. I just don't know how all of that is going to get implemented but I don't think I need to be worried at all about that.

[bjo0rn]

It sounds to me like he is circumventing the problems associated with large map sizes by placing a nummer of smaller in the same world and then have them interact on a meta scale.

[Entityofsin]

That will be cool to see. I am interesting in how that will look like.