Military Aid

[Grubfist]

I just requested military aid from an Outlander faction to help fend off a decent group of mechanoids. They sent me 4 soldiers equipped with an incendiary launcher, a revolver, a pump shotgun, and a knife. To fight mechanoids.

While I don't expect Outlanders to be matching the mechanoids technologically surely they could send a larger force with weapons more like bolt actions and LMGs? Does military aid scale at all with map threats or wealth? I almost feel like I need to report this as a bug for how underwhelming they were, but as it may be intentional a discussion seemed more prudent.

Surely this is something that needs fixing?

[Pangaea]

That sounds pretty ludicrous, yes. Was this early or late game for you? Did you have many colonists and a lot of wealth?

An ally happened to send help voluntarily once in my games. They arrived too late to be of any real use, but it was a fairly sizeable force, with at least 10 people. They killed some of the raiders trying to break out of our base.

[Kirby23590]

Yea, seems very ridiculous to bring something that starts fire and create a forest fire or a scorched earth by accident...

Since the Merc Gunner and the Town Guards can get their hands on the Incendiary launcher which is a dangerous weapon when used improperly or when the AI-controlled friendlies or raiders uses it, creating large fires or burning your colony...

Kinda removed the Incendiary launcher from their hands in a personal mod and gave it to the Heavy Mercenaries instead who seem to fit more on using Miniguns and Incendiary launchers more as they cause Heavy damage more with their boom booms and dakka dakkas, along with their evil laughter with triple rocket launchers and doomsday rockets...

[Pangaea]

Hmm, I wonder about those questions: amount of colonists and wealth you have.

An ally voluntarily came to my aid, and they sure brought a few. Unfortunately the raiders had just decided to leg it, so it was too late, but a nice gesture nonetheless. It's a good bit over 80, but I don't know how many.

[Grubfist]

For those asking, 11 colonists, fairly late game, and about 520,000ish wealth. Also, this is a strictly vanilla game, so it's not a mod issue.

[Pangaea]

Cheers.

I also see what you are talking about now, since I tried it myself. Over 800,000 wealth, 28 colonists, trying to fight off late-game ship start-up raids. I send for help, when some 150-200 raiders attack us. They send me 9 guys, scattered all over the place. It wasn't very useful.

I'm surprised there is such a vast difference between when an ally voluntarily sends help, and when you ask for help. You'd think it would be fairly similar forces.

[Grubfist]

Sounds like it may be an actual bug then, if the random chance aid is much stronger, the call-in might be fubar'd.

[Kirby23590]

Wow that's... Way too much help from them outlanders...

Seriously guys, i called you to deal with my Mechanoid Problem, but seriously stop bringing them molotovs and incendiary cannons, they are machines and are immune to fire!

Now back to serious OOC discussion...

Calling military aid help, good for distraction though the many cons are not just them bringing, fire weapons but sometimes there are relatives or cousins to your pawns who are joining the help out to deal with your problem, and them dying might make one of your pawns upset over that...

Which is something that made one of my guys that had a mental break from because his mother died while fighting mechanoid centipede problem.

Pangaea is there any or some relative or cousin among those friendlies you got? And how many are there?

[Shurp]

Is it possible it has something to do with your relationship level with the faction?  I would think a faction that likes you would be more willing to send help.

Also, isn't there some silver involved usually?  How much are you paying for these guys (and how much help do you really expect for that price?)

[Kirby23590]

Also, isn't there some silver involved usually?  How much are you paying for these guys (and how much help do you really expect for that price?)

In the latest version, they are free, no silver is required...

It's all replaced by Goodwill instead (It costs 25 Goodwill to call for immediate military aid in fact). However you have to be allied with them first... Usually by doing quests or using drop pods with free gifts for them and etc.

If I'm correct, you can only summon outlanders or factions with a higher tech level or industrial, you can not summon tribals to help you out since their tech level is lower and they only say "Sorry! Ook noo drop podda to help you immediately! Sorree!!" (They actually  say they apologize that they won't be able to arrive in time, since their tech level is low to create drop pods. ) if you try to call for their immediate aid, you can still call caravans from them however.

Is it possible it has something to do with your relationship level with the faction?  I would think a faction that likes you would be more willing to send help.

Probably... I think if your relationship with a faction is allied. They will send friendlies to help you out more when your getting raided even if you didn't call them... I think, though i maybe unsure...

Though in one of my older playthroughs i remember befriending the rough outlanders so that they will not raid me anymore and i ended up making them allies...

Then i called the rough outlanders for their help in a raid, and after clearing the raid, out of nowhere a friendlies event where the friendly neighborhood tribals came to the rescue even though i was now fine... But the rough outlanders were still chilling on my colony... And then the two started a bloody fight outside of my colony.

And it became a bloodbath between the friendly tribals and the rough outlanders. Some of them did die in both sides in the fight, and i was only the observer while they fight, killing each other. However i did save some of them while they were downed and healed them back up just for free goodwill with each faction and nabbed some of their gear that they dropped...

Though i don't remember if the tribals were neutral or friendly... Or if the Friendlies event is rarer if they are neutral or doesn't occur...

EDIT: Limdood said they only send out friendlies if your allied with them. Thanks man.

[Limdood]

friendlies don't occur if neutral

[Wanderer_joins]

We've had this discussion during the public testing of 1.0. Basically "friendly raids" are a free out of jail card. "Military aid" is a fixed 800-1000 points strength military aid.

It's easy to stay friendly with factions sending them stuff, so you could game the system if "military aid" scaled as "friendly raids".

[Pangaea]

We've had this discussion during the public testing of 1.0. Basically "friendly raids" are a free out of jail card. "Military aid" is a fixed 800-1000 points strength military aid.

It's easy to stay friendly with factions sending them stuff, so you could game the system if "military aid" scaled as "friendly raids".

That is a fair point then, and makes the game's behaviour understandable. A minority would probably abuse the hell out of it. But it's unfortunate for those of us who wouldn't. Because right now, asking for help from an ally is pretty much pointless. Unless in the very early game I suppose -- unless that is scaled back too, so you get 1 person to deal with a 10-person raid, or something like that.

Besides, the friendly raid (as it's apparently called), usually arrives too late to be of any significance anyway. The few times I've had it happen, they arrive while the raiders are trying to escape the map or break out of my base.

Asking for help is at least useful in the sense that they arrive in time to help out -- even if they are just target practice for the horde of raiders.

[Canute]

And from the logical point, when you ask for help, they need to arrive with drop pod's next to your base.
When they just start moving from their outpost, they would arrive in day's after you finished the raid.

[Wanderer_joins]

I must agree the timing of friendly raids is bad most of the time.

I would rather have this option available but limited. Like you could call for an exceptionnal aid but under strict conditions.