Ludeon Forums

Ludeon Forums

  • September 25, 2020, 01:10:04 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Various issues  (Read 1784 times)

mzonk

  • Drifter
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Various issues
« on: November 24, 2019, 10:30:44 AM »

I apologize for not arranging this in the manner suggested in “how to report a bug.”  I'm not so much reporting a bug as giving you guys some free system testing.  I have multiple issues to note here and most aren't simple “do this and this happens” bugs.  Listing “what happened” and “what I expected to happen” is inappropriate, as are savegame and log files.  One does not save a game to show a missing feature.  I'm using version 1.0 2282 of the game under Windows 10, though I'd like to discuss obtaining a version that will run under Linux Mint 19.

It should follow that I don't expect the coding team to fix all of these issues by tomorrow.  In particular, the litter problems are going to take a lot of work, if you choose to accept them.  If not, I promise not to lose my temper—THIS time.  ;)

Likewise, I apologize if these things that I have noted have already been noted.  I tried to look them up, but the sheer volume of posts made this impossible.

I have worked as a professional coder.  I studied interface design.  From this, I learned that the first law of interface design is that the computer/program should get OUT OF the user's way and not INTO it.

These are things I have noticed while playing the game.  I am currently at the point of accumulating resources to build a starship.  There may be more as I continue to progress.

There are a variety of tasks—refueling generators, cutting plants, putting out fires—that violate this rule.  Particularly noisome is marking off blighted plants for cutting.  There is no way to mark off all the blighted plants in a field.   You have to go through the field and mark each one off by hand.  As blight spreads, you have to find and mark each newly infected plant—even if it is obscured, for example, by a basket of harvested plants—individually by hand.  Likewise, there is no way to put a colonist “on task.”  There is, for example, no “refuel all generators” command.     When a colonist finishes a hand-prioritized task—be it putting out a  fire, refueling a generator or chopping a tree—the colonist goes right back to whatever impertinent task he or she was doing beforehand, leaving additional instances of the prioritized task undone, so you have to go through by hand and prioritize each tree to be cut, generator to be refueled, etc, etc., etc.  This is a waste of the user's time.

There is no way to force the disposal of unwanted items.  This comes in three varieties.  First, there is no way to make a colonist or animal haul a stone chunk that is littering a space to someplace more acceptable.  They accumulate in bedrooms, work areas and hallways.  The only way I've seen to get rid of one is to use it at a stonecutter's table.  It is true that they do not encumber colonists, but they are unsightly.  Second, there is no way to permanently discard a tattered apparel item.  If a colonist is forced to wear something else, another colonist will spontaneously pick up the tattered item, cascading the debuff.  At the very least, there should be some warning if all the colonists are going to pick up a tattered item unless a replacement is made for each.  The ability to assign an item of clothing being made or about to be made at a tailor bench to an individual colonist wouldn't hurt either.  The human player, NOT the computer, should have the final choice.  Third, if a colonist should die during the game, anything the colonist was working on—an item of clothing, a sculpture, a component—becomes dead weight.  There is no way to assign projects to different colonists in the middle, so the orphaned projects just sit there.  Even worse, as best I can tell, they cause the computer not to assign other colonists to new instances of making those things.  Again there should be at least a warning when there are orphaned projects.

The game bounces between major and minor break risks too frequently.  I've seen a case where a colonist bounced between a major and minor break risk five times in as many seconds.  This is extremely annoying.

You have to rotate a chair to tell whether it's facing toward you or away from you.

There is no way to cycle through items.  This is particularly annoying if you want to find a specific item or animal.  It is incredibly noisome to hear the cries of animals as predators take them but to be unable to find the predator so that it may be hunted before it attacks a colonist.  Dropped weapons, apparel items and anything acquired on a caravan from batteries to beds are also difficult if not impossible to locate because there is no interface mechanism to do so.

Items do not show up in inventory unless hauled to a stockpile zone.  There is no “collect” mechanism to haul a group of items to a stockpile zone.

Caravan parking spots and crafting spots are so nearly invisible as to be difficult to find.

There are a variety of illnesses, gut worms being the most notorious, that will not show up as “injury” when the player tries to get the colonist to “rest until healed.”  This, obviously, makes treatment of these illnesses needlessly difficult.

Beauty is a black art.  If there is any definitive guide to what a “hideous environment” is and how to improve it, I can't find it.  I have already offered to sign an NDA, look into the source code and write such a guide, but my only reply was the lie that adequate source code is provided with the game.  I've looked those barebones constructors and data structures over.  They are not adequate for that task.
Logged

mzonk

  • Drifter
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: Various issues
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2019, 10:42:18 AM »

One other minor issue:  when you click on the "wiki" button, it brings the wiki page up in a separate tab on your web browser even if you already have the wiki open on another browser tab.
Logged

ReZpawner

  • Super Tester
  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 576
  • Crafter of Hats
    • View Profile
Re: Various issues
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2019, 10:45:54 AM »

No way to force the disposal of unwanted items? Of course you can haul a stone chunk somewhere else. There's a big button that says "haul". You can even select a pawn, and right click on it to force them to do it instantly.

Is this a troll post? Almost everything listed is in the game. If it isn't, then I would suggest watching a let's play episode, or some tutorials.
Logged

5thHorseman

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 848
  • 500 hours - it's been a good run.
    • View Profile
    • HMV Plays on YouTube!
Re: Various issues
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2019, 12:45:37 PM »

Note that Rimworld is effectively finished software. I don't really expect any more features in it to be implemented. Unless someone has a link that I'm not aware of?

Also note that Rimworld is no just insanely moddable but also insanely modded. Many of the features you want are available from mods. You may not prefer to mod your games but I urge you to reconsider in the case of Rimworld because they fix a lot of your issues and you likely won't get those fixes from anywhere else.

Also, you seem to not know of a few UI features that ARE in the base game.

I'll detail both below.

Particularly noisome is marking off blighted plants for cutting.  There is no way to mark off all the blighted plants in a field.   You have to go through the field and mark each one off by hand.  As blight spreads, you have to find and mark each newly infected plant—even if it is obscured, for example, by a basket of harvested plants—individually by hand.

This is totally true, and fixable by mods. I think the whole Blight thing is dumb from a UI perspective and fix it with a mod that automatically marks plants to cut as they get marked with Blight. There are other mods that do more or less for this, up to and including removing the Blight mechanic from the game.

Quote
Likewise, there is no way to put a colonist “on task.”  There is, for example, no “refuel all generators” command.     When a colonist finishes a hand-prioritized task—be it putting out a  fire, refueling a generator or chopping a tree—the colonist goes right back to whatever impertinent task he or she was doing beforehand, leaving additional instances of the prioritized task undone, so you have to go through by hand and prioritize each tree to be cut, generator to be refueled, etc, etc., etc.  This is a waste of the user's time.
You can (and should) switch the work tab to number mode (upper right of the work tab) and spend your "user time" fine tuning priorities there. Every time you notice a task not getting done in the time you'd like, go there and find a colonist who you can spare and up that task's priority for that colonist so they'll do it quicker. There is a mod that raises the number of priority levels to 10 (0-9) and another that lets you go deeper and set separate priorities for different hauling/medical/etc tasks like feeding sick people and whatnot.

I almost never hand-prioritize something outside of combat, and never hand-prioritize multiple items.

Quote
First, there is no way to make a colonist or animal haul a stone chunk that is littering a space to someplace more acceptable.
As noted by another poster, you can "Haul" the stone slab, and a hauler will take it to a stockpile designated to store slabs.

Quote
Second, there is no way to permanently discard a tattered apparel item.
There is. In the Restrict(?) tab you can set which outfits colonists can wear, and edit those outfits. You can (and should) tell them to not wear anything less than 50% quality and also to not wear tattered tainted apparel. After your colony is established you should also bump the quality up to Normal or Good.

Quote
The human player, NOT the computer, should have the final choice.
You do. If you "force" a colonist to wear something, they'll do so until it reaches 0% quality and dissolves.

Quote
Third, if a colonist should die during the game, anything the colonist was working on—an item of clothing, a sculpture, a component—becomes dead weight.  There is no way to assign projects to different colonists in the middle, so the orphaned projects just sit there.  Even worse, as best I can tell, they cause the computer not to assign other colonists to new instances of making those things.  Again there should be at least a warning when there are orphaned projects.
No argument here about that one. it's annoying. However you can fix it by canceling the item (right click the actual unfinished item), and the job will then become free again. not the best, but hey.

There is (or used to) be a mod that allowed colonists to finish others' items. I never used it. It's annoying but it never bothered me enough to mod out.

Quote
The game bounces between major and minor break risks too frequently.  I've seen a case where a colonist bounced between a major and minor break risk five times in as many seconds.  This is extremely annoying.
Agreed that it's annoying. I wouldn't be surprised to find there was a mod that addressed it. I never found it very annoying, though or even thought about it until this moment.

Quote
You have to rotate a chair to tell whether it's facing toward you or away from you.
Spoiler alert: It doesn't matter to the game which way the chairs face. So if it looks fine to you it doesn't matter. Same thing with dressers.

Quote
There is no way to cycle through items.  This is particularly annoying if you want to find a specific item or animal.  It is incredibly noisome to hear the cries of animals as predators take them but to be unable to find the predator so that it may be hunted before it attacks a colonist.
I'm 90% sure the Wildlife tab is stock, but if it's not you should install that mod. It lists all wild animals in the game and even shows if they're predators.

Quote
Dropped weapons, apparel items and anything acquired on a caravan from batteries to beds are also difficult if not impossible to locate because there is no interface mechanism to do so.
Agreed. I suggest the "Allow All" mod. It's not called that but if you search for that you'll find the right mod.

Quote
Items do not show up in inventory unless hauled to a stockpile zone.  There is no “collect” mechanism to haul a group of items to a stockpile zone.
This will be fixed if you set your priorities as outlined above. It isn't a problem if you keep up on hauling.

Quote
Caravan parking spots and crafting spots are so nearly invisible as to be difficult to find.
I've never had that problem myself, so no suggestions there. Though you can change graphics with mods so you could make your own if there isn't one already.

Quote
There are a variety of illnesses, gut worms being the most notorious, that will not show up as “injury” when the player tries to get the colonist to “rest until healed.”  This, obviously, makes treatment of these illnesses needlessly difficult.
I never noticed this one either. Though I tend to try to set up my work tab and let the colony run itself while I plan building projects, so unless someone's about to die I ignore that portion of the game and just let it happen.

Quote
Beauty is a black art.
Keep it clean. Put pretty and high quality things in rooms. Then get raided by 100 scythers because your colony is way more rich than it is powerful. Or do what I do and ignore that part of the game too. :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 12:48:07 PM by 5thHorseman »
Logged
Toolboxifier - Soil Clarifier
I never got how pawns in the game could have such insanely bad reactions to such mundane things.
Then I came to the forums.

bugi

  • Muffalo
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: Various issues
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2019, 09:03:21 AM »

Beauty is a black art.  If there is any definitive guide to what a “hideous environment” is and how to improve it, I can't find it.
There is quite a bit of info for beauty (and impressiveness) in Rimworld wiki; right in the vanilla game, clicking the i-buttons of various items and room stats and beauty numbers toggle (although this feature has bugs, doesn't show everything); and certain youtube guide/research videos.

If things below seems too long to read: after doing necessary structures/furniture, keep rooms clean, make wooden sculptures (poor quality or better, skill 3+ can do these) and install them in places where pawns spend lots of time awake, until the pawns beauty meter gets high enough for you.


I have found it mostly unnecessary to go into details on the beauty (unlike clean/dirty, which is quite essential). For most parts of the colony, I just smooth some walls (to allow power wires) and hallway floors (for faster walk) which provides enough "baseline" beauty. In some nasty spot, say, near turret, or an armor set kept outside storage for faster access, I might throw a flower pot or few, or if outside and there is dirt, just plant a flower or few, but only if there is some need to stay near that spot for longer. For example, in the early game when there isn't much room, ugly storage areas might be right next to working places; flower pots are a quick (temporary) solution for that.

The few special places, i.e. rooms for greedy or otherwise needy pawns, recreation room, and couple rooms where pawns spends a lot of time (research, kitchen, most production tables) or will be in bad mood (prison and hospital), I add some more beauty to get pawns beauty meter (and thus mood) stay higher... which will then also improve the room's impressiveness (another mood effect). Places where the pawns spend lots of time in a bed or sitting on a chair, to get comfort boost, the chair/bed needs high quality, which tends to also give higher beauty already.

If more beauty is needed in these locations, it is pretty much pointless to waste time with carpets, too much smoothing, marble walls or flower pots, as a single crappy sculpture, with beauty 50+, will alone give a big improvement. A large room might need another sculpture and/or better one to compensate for the large amounts of non-smooth floor.   The point with sculpture is that e.g. even the wood crappy ones don't have (relatively) much price value, yet increase beauty more than 50-100 tiles of nice smooth floor/walls with much higher total value.  Just in case it is not clear, the accumulated price value is bad, as it causes stronger raids. (It does also increase the impressiveness value of the room, but it is best to increase that by other means, i.e. space, beauty and cleanliness first.)

Flowers (in plant pots) have better beauty/value ratio, but they need occasional work, and especially in bedrooms can cause interrupted sleep, so I don't make too many of them.

The benefit of smoothed floor/wall is that they don't take space.

Examples, in order of better (i.e. lower ratio) first:
* (Higher quality sculptures have even better ratio, but I didn't have one to check for exact values. Wooden large masterwork should give 500 beauty, value $586.80, ratio about 1.17)
* Wooden plant pot (normal) beauty 0, value $24.63 + rose beauty 14, value $0; ratio about 1.76
* Wooden large sculpture (normal) has beauty 100, market value $195.60 (value/beauty ratio about 2)
* Wooden large sculpture (poor) has beauty 50, market value $146.70 (ratio about 2.9)
* Smoothed granite floor beauty 2, value $8 (ratio 4 - not that bad, but still).
* Wooden chair (excellent/masterwork) beauty 24/40, value $111.24/$185.40 (ratio about 4.6)
* Wooden chair (good) beauty 16, value $92.70 (ratio about 5.8 )
* Jade shelf (masterwork) beauty 50, value $400.00 (ratio 8 )
* Smoothed granite wall is beaty 1, market value $20 (ratio 20)
* Wooden table (1x2) (masterwork) beauty 2, value $88.73 (ratio about 44.4)

Considering how little beauty ordinary wooden tables give, there is no point in trying to make high quality ones; they just add plenty wealth, for little to no beauty. Jade 1x2 tables might be something to consider, but still, maybe best use that jade for something else. Also, larger tables increase in value almost in proportion to their size, but they only increase slightly in beauty. It may be better to put multiple 1x2 tables than one large (but it depends on the qualities and materials).

Given spare time and enough defense (turrets, wall arrangement, total combat skills, weapons, armors), I do eventually smooth more floors and put carpets etc., but those are near the bottom of the very very long prioritized todo-list...
Logged

mzonk

  • Drifter
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: Various issues
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2019, 10:37:23 AM »

As a curmudgeon in training, I am tempted to score points with the board by posting a nice, long, whiny reply to all these; however, my true feelings about the matter are that I am quite impressed both with the speed with which this was done and the length/obvious effort and specificity of the replies.  Don't let the curmudgeon board know.  ;)

Thank you.
Logged

Fakeaccount123

  • Drifter
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: Various issues
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2019, 06:50:40 PM »

There are a variety of illnesses, gut worms being the most notorious, that will not show up as “injury” when the player tries to get the colonist to “rest until healed.”  This, obviously, makes treatment of these illnesses needlessly difficult.

Thats because not all diseases work in the same way. Some diseases like malaria or flu can be healed faster if the pawn is resting in a medical bed. The pawn will slowly gain immunity to the disease.
Some others diseases like gut worms or muscle parasites dont work like that. they need to be treated X times before they go away (it depends on the quality of the treatment. Check the wiki), but in the maintime your pawn doesn't need to be resting. If you can't command your pawn to "rest until healed" is because your pawn doesnt need to be treated yet. Every X hours your pawn will need treatment and he will automatically find a medical bed and a doctor will treat him, after that they both will return to their activities.
Logged

Bigdestyn

  • Drifter
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: Various issues
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2020, 03:00:33 PM »

you can burn tattered and tainted clothing at a campfire
Logged

Canute

  • Transcendent
  • *****
  • Posts: 9346
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: Various issues
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2020, 04:09:26 PM »

Or just made stockpiles for these outside.
Animals can haul them to it and the stuff just rot away.
Logged

LWM

  • Planetologist
  • ****
  • Posts: 1034
  • Little White Mouse
    • View Profile
Re: Various issues
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2020, 11:50:52 AM »

There's a bug in vanilla code, by the way, that means altho jade shelves have 50 beauty, that beauty isn't counted by pawns.  I fixed it for my storage mod, and I'm hoping they fix it in the next release - it's in their bug tracking software, at least.
Logged

Leversun

  • Muffalo
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: Various issues
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 04:00:42 PM »

if you already have the wiki open on another browser tab.
Logged