The river content is dead.

[East]

river was the core content of b19.

You can build bridges and build water mills so you can edit the limited terrain and feel new

But again in 1.1 It completely disabled the river content.

It is no longer useful to cross the river and the watermill is not wall protected. At b18 I think he balances the river through several nerfs. It reduced the power of the water mill, made it impossible to build several pieces together, and prevented it from being installed on wooden bridges.I think that balance adjustment was enough.

Now you can not build walls except for wooden walls. This is what kills the river completely. I don't know why he doesn't provide a more diverse environment and disables existing ones.

I'd like to release the late tech of the bridge. For example, a stone bridge.Capable of building walls on it.

If not, the moisture pump should be used directly by the miner to drastically reduce the time.

This may not be ok. Anyway, I hope living in the river is another fun. The river is not fun now.

[Elrood]

Yeah, rivers without https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2012484790&searchtext=Simply+More+Bridges are useless and more detrimental than helpful.

With above mod with how many water mill you can stuck and protect with solid walls river are again valid alternative to geothermal.

[codyo]

Watermills are definitely a waste of space once you get into the mid and late-game. They're way too big and generate too little energy for a serious colony.
Up until you get to that point though, they're ok for powering your workshops and heating. Building wooden walls around them tends to deter raiders and I've had no issues with cheap river walls.
Once you reach geothermal energy you might as well let the watermills fall into disrepair or remove them. What are you going to use a bunch of energy for at the beginning of a colony anyway? Turrets? They're resource draining inaccurate pea-shooters now. You don't need that much electricity any more anyway.

The only problem I have with bridges right now is that the AI for workers still chooses to path through shallow water even when a bridge is nearby.

[B@R5uk]

The only problem I have with bridges right now is that the AI for workers still chooses to path through shallow water even when a bridge is nearby.

Well, there was this problem. There is this problem still. And, I think, there it will be.

[CyberianK]

Having the issue with that currently as I have a Huge River dividing my map in the middle plus some huge marsh patches.

I guess only way to fix that is to forbid some Areas by a special zone instead of Unrestricted?

[Boboid]

Having the issue with that currently as I have a Huge River dividing my map in the middle plus some huge marsh patches.

I guess only way to fix that is to forbid some Areas by a special zone instead of Unrestricted?

Or pave paradise with bridges.
Unfortunately it uses a lot of wood and a reasonable amount of manpower.

As to the general pathfinding issues - thicker bridges combined with restricted zones tends to solve most issues. Though not all.

---
I disagree with the assertion that rivers are "useless" now that you can only protect watermills with wooden walls.
Rivers simply aren't strict bonuses anymore - and that's fine.

Having played with rivers in the past and post 1.1 I can safely say that they're considerably more balanced than previously when they were just giant strict advantages that all but disabled the need for power in any other form.

As it stands rivers -and by extension watermills- are still quite powerful as many types of threats simply treat all walls as permanent obstacles regardless of their fragility. (Or flammability)

Additionally rivers can be extremely useful in manipulating the enemy's pathing to stand on traps or IEDs (Individual tiles of bridges are preferred by the pathfinding of enemies and as a result enemies will predictably stand on them)
Moreover, increasing the time it takes enemies to reach you is useful.

As to the idea that power generation via watermills is somehow useless, that's a pretty hard point to argue as the alternatives are more expensive and typically have a larger (or very restrictive in the case of geysers) footprint.
You can argue that your colonies might not consume a lot of power but not that all colonies do.
In more extreme climates (Particularly those with short or non-existent growing cycles) vast amounts of power are required for hydroponics particularly as your population scales up. Geothermal may not be desirable given its location or its own susceptibility. Even walled-in geothermal generators require connections via conduits which are often indefensible, and flammable.

Rivers still offer unique options that simply don't exist in other biomes, much in the same way mountains do, and they're totally viable.

Rivers aren't "Dead". You just don't like rivers

[East]

The river is dead.

The pros and cons are clearly distinguishable.

-Advantages
watermill (I've been nerfed too much and building one or two more because of terrain constraints)

-Disadvantages
More need trees and workloads.
Burning Crumble Floor
Defensive line that can be burned by wooden walls( If there's an accessible path that the humanoid enemy can burn, it's lit with a certain probability.)
The line is longer for residents to cross the river.
--
Enemy lines are hard to agree. Already a wall is enough to control the movement, and there's a door there.(There is a door that only forces the enemy to their disadvantages.)

Before 1.1, it was very powerful to construct kill zones in rivers. That was the heart of the river. But now only the wooden wall means that there are no kill zones there.

There are no river-specific creatures. Unlike swamps, it is also impossible to control with a pump.

Even if you are playing rivers, you will play like a map without rivers rather than interact with them. What does it mean?

[Boboid]

I fundamentally disagree with your assessment and think you're stuck on comparisons to previous versions instead of considering what can be done with the current rivers and what new tactics can be employed to take full advantage of them.

I think however we're going to have to chalk this one up to personal preference.

[fritzgryphon]

I can see the mills being invalidated, though haven't tried yet.

If it's not practical to defend mills with stone walls, they will certainly be destroyed by almost every raid that passes near them.  You could risk colonist soldiers or spend heavily on turrets, but they are worth much more than the mills.  Rebuilding the mills after each raid would be a small but unacceptable component cost, and wood if you are on desert/shrubland.  Any other power source would be cheaper.

Mills are immune to eclipse, but so are windmills and fueled generators.  Having a few backup chemfuel generators in a defended location may be cheaper overall than rebuilding mills.

[Elrood]

I fundamentally disagree with your assessment and think you're stuck on comparisons to previous versions instead of considering what can be done with the current rivers and what new tactics can be employed to take full advantage of them.

I think however we're going to have to chalk this one up to personal preference.

Actually what can be done which is not simple inconvenience or possible big problem down the road?

Rivers are hard to use as killbox/enemy slow down because you can use only wood walls for funneling. That is actually the only use i can think off in vanilia.

Rivers in mountainous can also work as natural barriers for expanding your base being yet another obstacle - if you plan wrong and choose too small place which won't be spawning infestations....

Mills are generating less power than geothermal per building and per component.
Without any mod which would allow you to build watermills on water they require a long line line to outdo even two geothermals (not to mention that its hard to place so many of them without using heavy bridges from some mod).
You need to research them - which means they are not quick and dirty way to generate energy - for that you have generators and considering their efficiency you are better off researching geothermal.

Sure, i like to start near them, but i also have few mods chucked in which re-balance them enough for me to be useful/less inconvenient.

[RicRider]

Do you have Grand Rivers and Chest Deep Impassable Water? I find that they really make rivers a lot of fun in addition to the Advanced Bridges suggested above. If you like to stay with Vanilla then wall off your rivers like this following badly done ASCII rendition:

Code Select Expand


M = Mountain
F = Flat ground
S = Shallow water
D = Deep water
B = Bridge (with wooden wall)
W = Wooden wall
T = Trap
MMMMM
FFWFT     ---> spike traps, turrets, shooters this way
SSBSS
DDDDD


For the trap, wooden spikes combined with incendiary is great, especially if you add a nearby turret; set the sappers on fire, make them flee through spike traps and light them up).

Treat your river entrance like a killbox with a 'weak cap' on it.

Build your water mills further down along the river after your mini killbox.

Your guys can still access the map using the door and traders can get in that way too. If you have more space between the water and the mountain or can mine out some of it without touching overhead mountain then you could put traps outside as well.

So what I'm saying is don't even bother walling off your water mills just wall of the river further down instead.