Mech clusters subvert the game

[SpaceDorf]

 

Personally, I'd like the clusters to start as an ally, actually protecting your base, but have the relations decline over time.

What would be the rationale for the clusters to protect you?

I would say, they don't protect you per say, they protect themselves and as long as you are no threat to them, the don't attack you.
Declining relations translates in you growing over time and becoming a threat to the cluster.

Traders in addition should either keep away from you as the cluster exists or get stupid ideas about the cluster.

Last option. The cluster starts expanding.

[kclace]

They would protect you because they are the enemies of every other faction. Let me give you an example.

I've been attacked by mechanoids, but because I was behind walls, the mechanoids decided to attack all the insectoids on the map first.

You are right though, traders would still get attacked. Your relations with other factions would deteriorate. Maybe that would be the point though.

Heck you could even have quests where you complete objectives for the mechanoids in order to keep them as an ally. Now there's some good story telling.

[Whifflepits]

They would protect you because they are the enemies of every other faction. Let me give you an example.

Whah?..... Why would that ever make sense?

The mechanoids are hostile because you are organic. Period. They have no reason to draw distinctions between you and other tribes, or you and insectoids, or you and the foliage. They're not going to war with you because of ideological differences or because you insulted their mam. You're organic, and you should be sterilized because you're not mechanical. That's the end of it.

IF for some reason you wanted to find a reason for making mechanoids less hostile(but... Why... Why ever?...), it would be for installing implants, which would completely retcon the entire gameplay loop (Get richer and more powerful and the less enemies and challenges you have? No, that isn't fun.)

[fritzgryphon]

Personally, I'd like the clusters to start as an ally, actually protecting your base, but have the relations decline over time.

It would be funny if the mechs were initially friendly and helpful, because they are too weak to beat your colony, and know it.  They would give you gifts, protect your base, trade, share tech.

Then after they have imported or manufactured enough units they become hostile and crush you.  The only colonists that remain are nudged onto reservations or used as slaves.

[erdrik]

...
It would be funny if the mechs were initially friendly and helpful, because they are too weak to beat your colony, and know it.  They would give you gifts, protect your base, trade, share tech.
Then after they have imported or manufactured enough units they become hostile and crush you.
...

The first time that betrayal happened I would never allow it to happen again. It would instantly place that encounter in the "crush them while they are small" category, never to be removed.
It might be an interesting shock the first time it happens, but from then on it would just become a too easy encounter for free resources.

[kclace]

I never thought the canon on mechanoids was ever fleshed out? I was under the impression that mechanoids are an important part of the labor force on glitter worlds, but sometimes the AIs rebel.

In any case, my idea would be that if you were allied with the mechanoids, they would let you trade with them. One thing you could buy would be mechanoid implants, which would negate the negative effects of their buildings, but eventually, the impants would assimilate the pawn, and you would lose control of the pawn. If you try to remove the impant, the mechanoids turn against you. Kind of like the borg eh?

[DubskiDude]

While I was beta testing Royalty several months back, I had a gut feeling people wouldn't like clusters :') seems like my prediction came true. Tynan is nerfing them slightly so hopefully it all evens out, but I kinda wish clusters would drop sandbag-like structures instead of just walls, that might ease the "meat grinder" feeling of clusters.

[gav00uk]

I've been loving the Mech Clusters. There a lot of fun and bring much needed variation. There are so many ways of dealing with them all which require thought and tactical play. Would love to see them expanded further. I don't use killboxes, turrets or traps so i think this type of event will suite me and players like me a little more than those that have been relying on the enemy walking into ambushes (not that there is anything wrong with a bit of that).

Melee combat feels so much better now too, using a combination of ranged and melee to deal with mechs is a blast and also helps with Mech Clusters in general. Recon Armor + Coagulator + the new melee weapons is very powerful if used right.

[Covered in Weasels]

The two most recent hotfixes seem to address a lot of these concerns. Mech mortars were nerfed and reclassified as a "problem causer" instead of a combat threat, so only one can spawn per cluster. And mech clusters were made a separate event type instead of a raid strategy, so they should pop up less frequently. Overall the mech buildings have gotten a lot weaker since release.

[Ser Kitteh]

Thank GOD that charge turrets have a minimum range now. Sure the long range is annoying but it's inaccurate, so I'm cool with that.

I did a quest where their range was like, four tiles in radius, and because it was in a U-shaped and my pawn with the sword broke down the steel wall and was able to bash it down properly. So that's nice.

[TrashMan]

2 - Clusters were extensively tested but people have different skills and playstyles so I'm still adjusting them going forward (as you can see from the patch notes). It also is clearly an adjustment from the old turtling gameplay, which is understandable but was the goal all along. Adding variety and new strategies to the game is good, and a great way to do that is to give the player the initiative instead of always putting him in a reactive role.

I don't see how. You are still reacting.

Something like Preemptive Strike, where raids are generated and travel on the map and can be intercepted, is a much better option. (would be even better with proper vehicles)
Combine it with AI colonies having some basics stats (wealth, population, defense) so that raiding them can cause them to stop sending raids (at least temporarily) and you have proper reactive gameplay.

Destroy the enemy colony close to you and they have to send attacks from a colony that is farther away, giving you more time to prepare and intercept.
Kill enough of them and their population drops so they can't send big raids untill it recovers.
And if AI factions actually properly interact (raid and trade with eachother - simplified) you now have a far more reactive world adn reasons for the player to leave his adobe.

[gav00uk]

2 - Clusters were extensively tested but people have different skills and playstyles so I'm still adjusting them going forward (as you can see from the patch notes). It also is clearly an adjustment from the old turtling gameplay, which is understandable but was the goal all along. Adding variety and new strategies to the game is good, and a great way to do that is to give the player the initiative instead of always putting him in a reactive role.

I don't see how. You are still reacting.

Something like Preemptive Strike, where raids are generated and travel on the map and can be intercepted, is a much better option. (would be even better with proper vehicles)
Combine it with AI colonies having some basics stats (wealth, population, defense) so that raiding them can cause them to stop sending raids (at least temporarily) and you have proper reactive gameplay.

Destroy the enemy colony close to you and they have to send attacks from a colony that is farther away, giving you more time to prepare and intercept.
Kill enough of them and their population drops so they can't send big raids untill it recovers.
And if AI factions actually properly interact (raid and trade with eachother - simplified) you now have a far more reactive world adn reasons for the player to leave his adobe.

It was tested for months before release from what i have read, but a testing team can only do so much. They cant keep testing forever or content never gets released.

What your describing is massive fundamental change to the game. It would remove most of the events from our settlement map and we would be spending most of our time roaming the world map attacking other caravans and settlements. While that might be fun it would remove a lot of danger from our map and colony, seeing whats coming removes the element of surprise and makes it easy to prepare.

Remember in Rimworld we are the small guys, the survivors. We are not a military force or planetary conquers, we are the underdogs trying to stay alive and if possible thrive and escape. What you are wanting is by no means bad but to me its a different game entirely. Maybe it could work after many more updates and game changes, but it would take a long time.

[Breadbox]

I honestly don't see how that would be 'changing the game fundamentally', I've being using Pre-emptive strike forever and it is balanced for what it is. You can stand guard, but it's one colonist that wouldn't do anything productive, preparing for an event that maybe occur every season, for which you may or may not need the warning(most of the time no). It doesn't remove much danger from the game but it does give you many more ways to play and deal with a threat, which is good.

The only unbalanced building is the unmanned radar which does everything but that can tweaked easily. And even if you could spend your time attacking caravan and settlement, nobody is forcing you to, fighting raids on even ground is a terrible idea anyway.

[TrashMan]

What your describing is massive fundamental change to the game. It would remove most of the events from our settlement map and we would be spending most of our time roaming the world map attacking other caravans and settlements. While that might be fun it would remove a lot of danger from our map and colony, seeing whats coming removes the element of surprise and makes it easy to prepare.

I do not follow your logic.
Why would it remove most events from the map?
Why would you be spending most of your time roaming?
Have you even tried Preeemptive Strike or Scouting mods? There is a CHANCE to detect incoming, that depends on distance, size and equipment. You might get a several hours of warning. You might get almost none. how is getting no warning at all good in any way, shape or form?

Remember in Rimworld we are the small guys, the survivors. We are not a military force or planetary conquers, we are the underdogs trying to stay alive and if possible thrive and escape.

And going out and exploring and scavenging is not part of survival?
Fighting against other hostile groups is not part of survival? Small tribes have fought agaisnt eqachother since antiquity.
It's not like other settlements are massive nations that are unassialable.

You're not supposed to turtle because your defences get nerf upon nerf, to the point that killboxes and dumb AI abuse are required survival strategies. You're not supposed to go out either.
What are you suppsoed to do.

[Nainara]

Just want to preface this by saying I love the introduction of mech clusters! It was a delightful moment of discovery when Cassandra dropped the first cluster on my hapless colony. However, I share a nuanced version of OP's sentiment. The current combination of shields and turrets makes dealing with mid/late game mech clusters rather formulaic, repetitive, and micro-heavy. Cleaning up turrets is especially tedious. Clusters are less fun than they could be.

Mech cluster drops could be made more interesting if they had more variation, especially in shields & turrets. Variation is chaotic. Chaos is interesting. Here are a few suggestions off the top of my head:

• Allow mortar and bullet shields a random quality rating that results in a percent of incoming interceptions instead of producing a deterministic result
• Shield coverage area could be made non-deterministic too
• If some turrets required a power source and batteries, it would increase the number of strategic options for dealing with them
• Perhaps turrets with a built-in power supply ought to run out after a period of time and self-destruct
• Mech clusters that launch explosive and incendiary mortars from a defended position is a little overbearing, but launching EMP mortars to shut down colony facilities and make pawns throw up sounds amusing.
• No matter how advanced it is, a bullet shield really shouldn't eat a doomsday rocket whole. The rocket should have either passed through, or detonated on the shield and tragically killed the pawn who launched it