The Big Patch Notes Topic

[Galileus]

Being entitled is very different then wanting updates. Especially since on the Wiki that someone posted earlier it mentioned a patch was due and it hasn't yet arrived. Stop being a sheep who thinks you shouldn't question things.

Wanting updates is fine. Everyone wants updates.

You demand updates as if you have any right to. You are acting like you're entitled and as if you hired Tynan yourself. It ain't quite like that. We gave Tynan money as a loan with no roadmap or solid timetable at all. We can suggest changes or features, but we have no right at all to demand anything. Especially that we get a fair share of updates and news on the progress - something we are not entitled to have either. If Tynan wanted to - he could vanish underground and pop-up with complete product. And you know what? He has every right in the universe to do so. It wouldn't be pretty, sure, but it wouldn't be wrong per se either.

Daily, hourly updates? Are you guys so far gone you actually believe that? Not even an employer gets hourly updates in alpha stage. Some parts of the game take weeks to implement and bugtest - and here there's only one guy working on it. Working on it, contacting new people for SFX and GFX and actually having a company to run. Do you expect hourly updates of something that doesn't work yet? And no doubt would be furious it doesn't work yet? I lack words to describe how ridiculous that attitude is.

If you expected constant updates in alpha stage, you can blame yourself, not Tynan. Never once was something like that promised and as such you have no reason to expect it, even less yet to demand it.

Also, wiki is NOT and official statement EVER. EVERER. EVEREST even! Wiki is fan-made, and as such needs to be treated accordingly. What you're saying is: "some guy said he heard some guy saying Tynan said patch was due! And there is none! It's fishy!". What you were supposed to say is: "Hmmm, wiki's info is outdated. I'll update it, so that no-one looks for that one patch that didn't came up".

[BattleFate]

Having no patch for over a month is not too serious. I thought people were joking when they were saying it's been too long. I mean seriously? 1 month isn't the end of the world. Particularly when you take into account Tynan did actually keep us in the loop through blog posts and forum interaction.

He explained, very clearly what he's been working on and what he's been spending his time on. I'm not sure what the issue is. He didn't disappear. He didn't promise a patch then not deliver. He didn't take our money and run...

I mean if in 2 more months there's still no changes to the game in our hands, then I'd start to wonder (I mean half the reason so many of us pledged was to have early involvement and see the game progress and evolve). But a little patience is a requirement in a project like this.

Being patient is not being a sheep.

[BanzaiBlitz]

I keep wanting a +1 button for sensible posts about why demands for updates are, bluntly, exceedingly rude and selfish.

There are ten thousand other games to play.  Manners are also more likely to grant answers to questions when reasonable as well.

Kickstarter backing does not give one any sort of authority to make demands. _{Barring of course a backing tier that EXPLICITY grants managerial cooperation with the dev or team.  None here I know of.}

Take a chill pill or crack open a beer and relax.  Code will take the time required, not appear on demand.

Edit: Also, forgot to mention you can easily check Tynan's forum profile to see his activity, recent posts, etc.

[Semmy]

And tynan is active on almost daily basis.
He is online multiple times per day.
And i always get a responce when i send him a msg. Even at hours i think canada should be asleep. But like most of us even tynan is most productive at night (-:

[daft73]

.....
Being patient is not being a sheep.

No one needs to be a sheep ...Life happens, it is just a game. Whilst the rest of the world takes it time to do what they are doing...so will programmers. To do a proper project one must be in the proper space of mind, only then will the work be effective, or beneficial. And if I recall Tynan just moved(home), so that may slow down a bit of progress..that's fine Real Life is kinda important.

So play or do something else to pass the time, it's the holidays see the family, go on vacation or w/e.
Patience is a virtue. 

[Bradski]

Wanting updates is fine. Everyone wants updates.

You demand updates as if you have any right to. You are acting like you're entitled and as if you hired Tynan yourself. It ain't quite like that. We gave Tynan money as a loan with no roadmap or solid timetable at all. We can suggest changes or features, but we have no right at all to demand anything. Especially that we get a fair share of updates and news on the progress - something we are not entitled to have either. If Tynan wanted to - he could vanish underground and pop-up with complete product. And you know what? He has every right in the universe to do so. It wouldn't be pretty, sure, but it wouldn't be wrong per se either.

Daily, hourly updates? Are you guys so far gone you actually believe that? Not even an employer gets hourly updates in alpha stage. Some parts of the game take weeks to implement and bugtest - and here there's only one guy working on it. Working on it, contacting new people for SFX and GFX and actually having a company to run. Do you expect hourly updates of something that doesn't work yet? And no doubt would be furious it doesn't work yet? I lack words to describe how ridiculous that attitude is.

If you expected constant updates in alpha stage, you can blame yourself, not Tynan. Never once was something like that promised and as such you have no reason to expect it, even less yet to demand it.

Also, wiki is NOT and official statement EVER. EVERER. EVEREST even! Wiki is fan-made, and as such needs to be treated accordingly. What you're saying is: "some guy said he heard some guy saying Tynan said patch was due! And there is none! It's fishy!". What you were supposed to say is: "Hmmm, wiki's info is outdated. I'll update it, so that no-one looks for that one patch that didn't came up".

I never demanded anything, I just stated in early development where changes tend to happen daily, updates are common.

[Vilusia]

Since when? Which magical law stated that updates are common with games in alpha?

[Galileus]

I never demanded anything, I just stated in early development where changes tend to happen daily, updates are common.

Here:

Not going to lie, even though regular updates were not promised in early alpha they're pretty much expected.

And here:

Being entitled is very different then wanting updates. Especially since on the Wiki that someone posted earlier it mentioned a patch was due and it hasn't yet arrived. Stop being a sheep who thinks you shouldn't question things.

Both of those either suggest it is an widely understood expectation that there should be weekly/daily updates or even that it is fishy that updates are not there yet (which, btw, blows my mind... seriously, how does one go on being THAT entitled?). If you're going to say something, at least take responsibility for it. And in contradiction to common internet belief, the "manly way out" is not to negate what can be easily quoted against you, but to admit a mistake. Same rule prevails in real life too, btw...

And YES, saying something is expected is an demand backed by argument. You don't need to use word "demand" to be demanding. And being demanding is usually bad.

Since when? Which magical law stated that updates are common with games in alpha?

I have to back this wholeheartedly. The very idea of frequently updated alpha sounds like an oxymoron to me. I mean - alpha means a proof of concept, and proof of concept is a platform on which you develop the real thing. We're talking about adding a whole huge chunks of the game in. I don't have any experience with game dev from programming perspective, but I worked with animatics ("alpha version" of animation) quite a bit... and if someone would ask me to provide hourly or daily updates, I would sit down and crylaugh my way to oblivion. It cannot be done. If you have alpha version with frequent updates, I dare to say it's not an alpha version at all!

[Vilusia]

Plus the payout for this long wait is modding! So lets all cheer on Tynan so he knows he has our support. Rushing him or making him feel uneasy will only make for a bad product!

[Semmy]

I doubt tynan will let himself be influenced to much.
We saw that with the big cry for stretch goals he refused and carried on down the road he set for himself.

But lets stop the discussion about how many patches there should be and use this topic for what I intended it to be.

[NephilimNexus]

42 days and counting.

Today: 12/16/13
Last Update: 11/4/13

[palandus]

Technically he has been fairly forthright with what he is up to. He has shown us in the past month:

1) Rho is now working on the art, and has shown off some of the new changes with that including how Rho will show a lot of detail in a 32x32 pixel space.
2) He has an audio artist making new sounds and effects, that he is saying will sound more professional than the current ones from freesound.
3) He has mentioned that he has been working on a Mod Editor. This editor will allow us to create our own content, as well as sound effects/modify current ones.
4) He has also mentioned that tentatively a new build will come out in January 2014. This build will probably featuring new art by Rho, some of the Creative Content, new sound effects, and probably a bare bones mod editor in its infant stages.
5) He has mentioned that hes been spending time on doing the business pre-amble stuff with an accountant, probably setting up a business plan, moving to a new city and all the fun stuff that comes with it.
6) Hes been addressing a lot of bugs in the Bugs section.
7) Hes been addressing a lot of the complexities in the Creative Content section for those who backed in those tiers so that they may see some of their content in the game in the next build.

I dunno about you, but hes been keeping us quite informed on a weekly basis, if not daily basis.

If you are looking for daily reports, I think you are in the wrong place. The thing with coding is that you could make a huge breakthrough, but may be difficult to explain visually/audibly (text, pictures, videos) how this breakthrough is important. Having some patience and/or reading through his blogs, or even clicking on his profile and taking a look at his posts for the day will show he is active and is keeping people in the loop.

Its not just developing the game thats important. Its also important to:
-> Make fans who backed for creative content feel that their content is getting inputted into the game.
-> Make bugs that has been discovered disappear.
-> Make sure the government doesn't drown him in fees for not filling his taxes properly (you can get fined quite brutally if you screw up... in the range of 10 to 50k (thousand) dollars).

As people have said patience is a virtue. If you can't be patient either: Stalk Tynan's posts or go play another game while you wait.

[kdfsjljklgjfg]

And YES, saying something is expected is an demand backed by argument. You don't need to use word "demand" to be demanding. And being demanding is usually bad.

In all fairness, that depends on the delivery of the word. It doesn't have to be demanding in tone. Personally, I expect quicker updates, but only because I've never bought into a game so early before, so I'm entirely unfamiliar with it, and thus am basing it more on late betas and post-release games, since that's the only experience I have. That doesn't mean that I'm not perfectly fine with waiting (Which I am. There's so much promise here that it's worth waiting for.)

Having said that, yeah, he totally came off as a d-bag.

[Galileus]

Wording "To expect" or "to have expected" is very different from "is expected to" First two are always from personal perspective and as such can go both ways depending on the followup. Last one is a statement, that something is a common knowledge or a rule that others should follow, and are at fault if not doing so.

[palandus]

Can someone actually name a game with daily or weekly updates? I find that if someone can manage to do a 2-week update is pretty good, or even a 1-month update.

The other thing to consider is the 80-20 rule (80% work 20% return/goods/etc). If someone is spending time doing daily updates, that is 80% work to produce 20% return because the time spent iterating wouldn't justify a couple sentences for an update. Whereas if they wait a month, it would be 20% work and 80% return, because there is simply so much more to report. (Hope that made sense)