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Author Topic: trying to understand room heat...  (Read 262 times)

1daft

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trying to understand room heat...
« on: October 18, 2020, 03:59:39 AM »

when i'm trying to keep a room warm a single hole too many in the ceiling can make the room the same as the outside temperature instantly (say on sea ice). So when a fire started from a siege. i started opening it up well over the number needed. the room was already really hot, but no matter how hard i tried it didnt seem to matter. it felt like a bug. (the only reason i went in to open them up is i thought i understood the game mechanics). but maybe its not and its just something i had never tried to do before. does the room itself radiate heat past a certain point even if its open to the air? i play in vanilla so it wasnt a mod or anything (unless royalty). you can see in the screen shot how much was opened. (yeah i died in the end) it was distressing as you can imagine as i thought it was a good idea and don't understand why it didnt work and just want to know if it should have or what.

it dipped to maybe 100 c eventually and stayed there so in desperation I started opening the hallway and more roof there. but that just made it worse cause of the fire out there though it was really far away and open to the air too.. but at that point it was fine. It was over cause something wasnt working like i expected. anyway, if anyone knows if this is normal or not let me know. (12 squares open to the air and the temp was over 100c before i finally tried the hallway, then it went up over 300 which again is fine.)

Ukas

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Re: trying to understand room heat...
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2020, 06:37:49 PM »

That's pretty accurate shelling from the enemy.

Anyways, temperature is a question of balance. If you're in a small room with 100C temp, and the next bigger room has 300 C, then the bigger room somewhat heats your room, which in turn slightly cools the bigger room, as the temp radiates through the wall. If you open the door the temperature between the two rooms starts to balance much faster. If you remove one piece of the wall between the two rooms then game considers it a single room and balances immediately to closer to 300 C than 100 C, as the bigger room packs more heat energy.

I don't quite get why you suspect a bug, it's possible as I can't see how the thing actually played out. But in the game a fire inside is always a grade AAA+ emergency, you won't have much time before your pawns get incapacitated and die. so, instead of waiting and watching for effects for your actions, just keep working towards the goal.
 
Prevailing force is always outside temperature, and you started right by removing roof tiles to balance the room temp with outside, but I guess opening the door to the bigger more heated room and staying in was the fatal mistake. Removing roof tiles is somewhat different to opening doors or removing walls, as the effect is much weaker which makes it more relatable of the size of the room. THe game is balanced to keep things interesting, what would be the point of incendiary shells if the heat would leave the room through the single hole in roof the shell made while incoming?

To stay alive you would have needed to remove some more roof tiles while gettin closer to fires, put the fires down, remove some more roof tiles while keeping an eye to the wall between the rooms, as it would have caught fire soon. I also learned these the hard way, now in a similar situation I would have considered fleeing quickly through the doors and taking my chances in another map lol
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1daft

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Re: trying to understand room heat...
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2020, 03:48:58 PM »

I had a pretty good handle on heat concerns with adjoining rooms (which is why i didnt open the door till it was over and i was just trying anything at that point). Opening the door to a room on fire did what i expected. so i'm with you on that.

The source of the confusion was before that. the opening of 12 tiles and the room staying super heated (over 100 c anyway) I've thought about it some and short of doing testing the only thing i can think of is the ground itself must be a heat source once the rooms temperature got hot for a length of time (like the geyser or fire is). So, with every square in the room acting as a heat source even opening up 12 tiles didn't matter. Likely i could have removed every tile and it would have still sat at like 90-100 c.

There is probably logic for those heat sources cooling down at play here. My prior experience being simply a room staying cold or warm and then ruining that from removing roof tiles when exposing it to the elements didn't really prepare me for any other behavior... so, it felt like a bug.

I'm sure the room next door on fire was just making it worse 12 tiles removed or no. If I had played it smart i would have given up the room or if need be, kept removing roof tiles and hoped it worked out faster.

thanks for the response :)

it's worth saying, why was that one guy fighting a siege all on his own? well I've been trying to make it 2 years +1 raid at 500% threat level with a 2 year to max wealth independent threat growth without leaving the map. (best i've managed is 60 days of the 120) hence the whole, desperate times call for desperate measures, and when things dont make sense. i've got to figure out why so i can min-max the game mechanics hoping to survive.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 03:50:41 PM by 1daft »
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Canute

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Re: trying to understand room heat...
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2020, 04:00:50 PM »

I don't think the heat goes through the ground. Sure a geysir can heat up the room.
The heat comes from from the fire inside and through the wall/door.
You got 8 wall's and 1 door which gave heat to the neightbour room too.
I don't know the calculations, but it looks like the 12 open roof tile's wasn't enough.
But i know from bad expierence, a fire inside a mountain base is a bad thing. And when you can't get it under control very quick you have to evacuate all.
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1daft

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Re: trying to understand room heat...
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2020, 04:33:08 PM »

i didnt mean to imply the heat traveled in to the room through the floor. i meant the floor had become hot from the room heat before i opened the ceiling up. once hot, it takes time to cool down, but while that happens i think it probably acts like a heat source itself. (each square of the room) even if there wasnt a room next door on fire and the fire had burned itself out.  i mean they went to the trouble to make hot rooms glow even without a fire, so it doesnt strike me as odd in that manner. its easy enough to test i'll give it a whirl later.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 04:53:45 PM by 1daft »
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1daft

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Re: trying to understand room heat...
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2020, 05:20:48 PM »

well i just did some testing on peaceful. best guess, the squares do not act as heat sources unless they have fire on them. even if they get up to like 500+ c . i bet i was 2 or three tiles away from cooling that room to outside temps. i just didnt expect it to take so many. (just didnt realize it). I do think the the fire in the room next door was increasing the number of tiles needed to be removed... and the rooms heat itself might have played a roll. ah well, next time i'll be more aggressive in bringing down the roof
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 05:46:42 PM by 1daft »
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Ukas

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Re: trying to understand room heat...
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2020, 01:20:44 AM »

it's worth saying, why was that one guy fighting a siege all on his own? well I've been trying to make it 2 years +1 raid at 500% threat level with a 2 year to max wealth independent threat growth without leaving the map. (best i've managed is 60 days of the 120) hence the whole, desperate times call for desperate measures, and when things dont make sense. i've got to figure out why so i can min-max the game mechanics hoping to survive.

Uhuh I suspected you're playing a pretty hardcore game, without maxing the difficulty you won't see a siege that early in a single pawn scenario. Pretty sure you came to right conclusion, probably your pawn's survival was just behind few roof tiles.

Only time I've seen weird temp mechanics was kinda funny event, I had the hospitality mod and built a hotel for visitors, around a geothermal generator. My idea was to find a way to keep it nicely warm with lowest possible effort. I experimented with different ideas, and noticed if you build a wall around the generator but leave small place on one side of it, the heat will cumulate much higher than normal in that small space. The smaller the space, the hotter the air will be, also with less fluctuation. I guided that "packed" heat through a vent to the large dining area, which was surrounded by rooms each with a vent to the dining area. It worked pretty well. At one point the hotel became too small, so rebuilt it bigger, and thought okay if I leave just one tile between the wall with a vent and the generator... there should be enough heat to the whole place. Well turned out there was way more than I expected, a while later there was a "Fire!" event: the guests were burning in their rooms. The generator created insane temperatures in that single empty space!
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