Will the game-breaking raider teleporting ever be fixed?

[LakeWobegon]

So I don't want to be that guy that says "this problem isn't a problem".  But I see rather serious flaws in that defensive layout that go beyond the warping behavior that is the focus of this thread.

Trying to kill 200+ scythers, one at a time, while they also apply melee damage to your animals, while your pawns stand still and lose rest, recreation, and hunger, seems like a losing strategy to me.  Even if the warping didn't happen, you'd still have your entire colonist pool locked down for so long that they'd begin to break soon anyways.

Why not get rid of the small intestine-style maze, open it up to a 5 tile-wide corridor, and lock it down with 4 dudes with EMP grenades and the other 14 with frags?  You'll suffer no wall damage from the frags if it's five tiles wide.  The 200+ scythers will get stunlocked while your 14 grenadiers wipe them out.  And you'll be done with the fight probably 20 times sooner.  Plus no warping.

Sure because with your suggestion the scythers would not teleport. FYI the hardcore teleportatin showed on the video would still happen even if they were stunned.  Btw I go an entire run without a single mental break and basically never lose pawns not even after 40 years in-game and hundreds of raids. So I would say I know what I am doing.

The video from the OP was just a test to see if the teleportation was fixed as I was already done with the run due to pods going haywire landing on top of the mountain and making it collapse as if it was constructed roof (scythers and centipedes with bunker busting bombs attached to their @sses I suppose) . This can only very rarely be seen with 20k fun points raids but it is even more game breaking than teleportation when I have +800 raiders dropping everywhere on the map.

@PicaMula Thank you for your help. I will adress some of your posts later today (I hope) and provide feedback and a solution to avoid teleportation as much as possible.

[Mr_Fission]

The solution to avoid teleportation is simple - don't engineer a situation where 300 enemies are forced into a space large enough to hold 100 enemies.

I was able to recreate your "teleportation" behavior to an extent using dev mode.  I spawned about 300 scythers, and then gave them a one-tile-wide hallway to run though.  They were fine as long as they weren't in combat mode.  They clustered up, stacked on top of each other, and moved as a blob.  As soon as they entered combat mode, they decompressed, and searched for a way to spread out so that only one guy would occupy each tile.  In my test, the decompression only went backwards.  Meaning, the dense cluster of enemies was still teleporting, but only backwards. 

This decompression behavior is similar to what happens when you put a bunch of corpses in a room, and then strip them all at once.  The clothing explodes outwards in a circular pattern, warping outside of walls and whatnot.  It's a necessary solution to Rimworld's design where only one thing of the same type can exist in one tile at once.

[LakeWobegon]

The solution to avoid teleportation is simple - don't engineer a situation where 300 enemies are forced into a space large enough to hold 100 enemies.

I was able to recreate your "teleportation" behavior to an extent using dev mode.  I spawned about 300 scythers, and then gave them a one-tile-wide hallway to run though.  They were fine as long as they weren't in combat mode.  They clustered up, stacked on top of each other, and moved as a blob.  As soon as they entered combat mode, they decompressed, and searched for a way to spread out so that only one guy would occupy each tile.  In my test, the decompression only went backwards.  Meaning, the dense cluster of enemies was still teleporting, but only backwards. 

This decompression behavior is similar to what happens when you put a bunch of corpses in a room, and then strip them all at once.  The clothing explodes outwards in a circular pattern, warping outside of walls and whatnot.  It's a necessary solution to Rimworld's design where only one thing of the same type can exist in one tile at once.

I did not start playing this game yesterday, I have 6,2k hours; 5k hours were spent in 1.0 where I did NOT see any teleportation (the only exception were sappers where ***7*** whole dudes once teleported behind my lines out ~200. That happened only ONCE. So something changed that made RimWorld teleporting happy. These days its nearly 100% guaranteed that  large sapper raids will ignore melee blocking and push ppl aside or insta kill them (when 30 dudes hit at the same time, simillar to when they are trying to flee at a bottleneck).

[Jibbles]

The solution to avoid teleportation is simple - don't engineer a situation where 300 enemies are forced into a space large enough to hold 100 enemies.

I was able to recreate your "teleportation" behavior to an extent using dev mode.  I spawned about 300 scythers, and then gave them a one-tile-wide hallway to run though.  They were fine as long as they weren't in combat mode.  They clustered up, stacked on top of each other, and moved as a blob.  As soon as they entered combat mode, they decompressed, and searched for a way to spread out so that only one guy would occupy each tile.  In my test, the decompression only went backwards.  Meaning, the dense cluster of enemies was still teleporting, but only backwards. 

The game doesn't need hundred of enemies for this bug to take place. It's just more apparent & detrimental when more pawns are involved. It can also happen organically when players use extreme choke or maze designs but that is also not required. I've experienced this bug on a smaller scale. I don't normally do maze and stuff, but it's common for me to build small rooms and I flank a lot, I don't remember the situations tho. It also depends on the conditions where enemies "teleport" to, they don't always decompress backwards & could easily surround your colonists.

[LakeWobegon]

I'd welcome OP recreating the teleportation behavior under controlled conditions.

I am not sure what you mean with "controlled" conditions but here is another situation where melee blocking is bypassed by raiders which gives them a huge and unfair advantage (and it happens almost always).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEW1LLg0fys

@PicaMula I watched your videos and I saw the scythers teleporting, they just did not surrond your pawns because you gave them plenty of space to decompress (for example sideways). Also the scythers were not bunched up like when they walk in into the map.

Now to the anti-dote for the majority of teleportations (which fixes the lag too when well implemented).  If you like corridors like me, make sure you put a turret, an animal or a colonist behind a closed gate (that leads to the raiders) adjacent to the entrance of your corridor. You need to do that for every 30 cells of corridor lenght or else the raiders will bunch up again and the result will be lag and potential for teleporting.   The anti-dote was a courtesy of one of my viewers (thanks again Fungable).

[PicaMula]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEW1LLg0fys

Holy shit man that's extreme! Idk if I never engineered a situation like that or what, but I was not expecting decompression like that, at all. Do you have a save with the setup shown in the video? I'd like to test it for myself.

I notice in the video that you had a ranged colonist but you hid him. I assume that if you didn't hid the ranged guy they didn't decompress like that?

@PicaMula I watched your videos and I saw the scythers teleporting, they just did not surrond your pawns because you gave them plenty of space to decompress (for example sideways). Also the scythers were not bunched up like when they walk in into the map.

Well yeah I saw them teleporting too but as you said, didn't surround me so I'm fine with that. So at least there are workarounds to that behavior, at least when they are not sappers (when they are too to some extent you can force sappers to a desired location) you can design your defenses to avoid getting them to teleport behind the melee line.

[UltimateTobi]

Saw the video. The middle guy got shoved back a tile which gave space for the raiders to get through.
The question is: why did your pawn get pushed back a tile?

[Mr_Fission]

The game doesn't need hundred of enemies for this bug to take place. It's just more apparent & detrimental when more pawns are involved. It can also happen organically when players use extreme choke or maze designs but that is also not required. I've experienced this bug on a smaller scale. I don't normally do maze and stuff, but it's common for me to build small rooms and I flank a lot, I don't remember the situations tho. It also depends on the conditions where enemies "teleport" to, they don't always decompress backwards & could easily surround your colonists.

Again, the supplied video is an extreme edge case where you have hundreds of enemies crammed into a tight maze.  Subsequent testing videos in this thread with smaller numbers of enemies don't display the behavior.  My own testing didn't display this behavior until I cranked it up to hundreds of enemies in a tight maze.  Anecdotal accounts of this happening on a smaller scale are nice and all, but really, let's see some video evidence of this happening in the current version of the game at a smaller scale.

Also, to the OP, your in-game resume is irrelevant.  If you want this behavior fixed, recreate it under controlled conditions so it can be diagnosed.  I'm not posting here to annoy you.  I'm posting because I like bug hunting. 

[LakeWobegon]

Saw the video. The middle guy got shoved back a tile which gave space for the raiders to get through.
The question is: why did your pawn get pushed back a tile?

That is a question for the maker of the game to reply to not me. With that said its blatant cheating by the raiders I know that much.

[LakeWobegon]

The game doesn't need hundred of enemies for this bug to take place. It's just more apparent & detrimental when more pawns are involved. It can also happen organically when players use extreme choke or maze designs but that is also not required. I've experienced this bug on a smaller scale. I don't normally do maze and stuff, but it's common for me to build small rooms and I flank a lot, I don't remember the situations tho. It also depends on the conditions where enemies "teleport" to, they don't always decompress backwards & could easily surround your colonists.

Again, the supplied video is an extreme edge case where you have hundreds of enemies crammed into a tight maze.  Subsequent testing videos in this thread with smaller numbers of enemies don't display the behavior.  My own testing didn't display this behavior until I cranked it up to hundreds of enemies in a tight maze.  Anecdotal accounts of this happening on a smaller scale are nice and all, but really, let's see some video evidence of this happening in the current version of the game at a smaller scale.

Also, to the OP, your in-game resume is irrelevant.  If you want this behavior fixed, recreate it under controlled conditions so it can be diagnosed.  I'm not posting here to annoy you.  I'm posting because I like bug hunting.

We probably did not see the same videos, the videos posted on this thread all have teleporting. Raiders moving at speeds higher than their in-game movement speed says they can. The defenders did not end up surronded in all of them but that does not mean the problem (that made it possible) is not there. Then we also saw the game pushing ppl and animals aside without knowking them out rendering melee blocking useless. In the video that I posted just a couple of posts above it clearly shows raider teleporting and pushing my ppl aside to gain an unfair advantage (in a minimalist environment and no mods). Here is that video again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEW1LLg0fys

[Jibbles]

Again, the supplied video is an extreme edge case where you have hundreds of enemies crammed into a tight maze.  Subsequent testing videos in this thread with smaller numbers of enemies don't display the behavior.  My own testing didn't display this behavior until I cranked it up to hundreds of enemies in a tight maze.  Anecdotal accounts of this happening on a smaller scale are nice and all, but really, let's see some video evidence of this happening in the current version of the game at a smaller scale.

IIRC it goes like this... If the room/area doesn't have a free tile for each pawn to stand in then they'll decompress when they engage in combat.  Imagine a 3x3 box with 12 scythers clumping up inside it, or passing through it. You manage to get colonists to fight them there. They will teleport in situations like that every time.

[Mr_Fission]

Okay I missed the video with the humans, my apologies.

What I see in that video is the same decompression I described above, and which Jibbles pointed to again in his most recent post.  From my perspective, the decompression itself isn't the problem.  That behavior is a fundamental behavior in Rimworld, and you can see it in other parts of the game, like with stripping corpses in a small room like I described before, where the stripped clothing explodes outwards in a circle, appearing on the other side of solid walls.

The problem isn't that behavior.  It's the fact that it can also push your pawns into other squares.  If that one variable were changed, and your pawns were never allowed to be relocated due to enemy decompression, the "teleportation" behavior would go away.  Going back to your video, if player pawns were prevented from being forcibly moved, the decompression would first search for empty squares, and finding none, prefer squares filled with enemies.  And I think it's very reasonable to expect combat-engaged enemies be moved instead of combat-engaged player pawns.

That being said, this change wouldn't have any affect on friendly pawns (including animals) that are not in combat.  This means that the out-of-combat animals on display in your first video would still be relocated.  From my perspective, that's reasonable too.  Because out-of-combat creatures, both player and enemy, can stack infinitely until they enter combat.  Changing this fundamental behavior would change units from behaving like Rimworld units to like Starcraft units, where they are essentially solid, even while out of combat.  A big change like that is unlikely.

If you really care about changing this behavior, don't make an angry post in the General forum.  Make a respectful post in the Bugs forum, show only your raider video, and politely request that the behavior shown at 1:53 in that video be changed, so that player pawns can't be forcibly relocated by enemies.

[rinin]

Don't anyone think one dude who holds 300 scythers packed in tight corridor could actually fail to do it?

From the story perspective it's all fine. In my opinion it's even more fair, than the situation when he could actually hold back literally anything.

[forumgod]

This still isn't fixed by the way and we are in 1.2

Here's a 3 year old thread with the same problem reported: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=30536.0

Tynan is a hack.